# Against Fate - Author: [Gregory of Nyssa](https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/authors/gregory-of-nyssa/) - Latin title: *Contra fatum* - Date: ca. 380–394 (approximate) - Source: J.-P. Migne, ed., Patrologiae cursus completus, Series Graeca 45 (Paris: Migne, 1863), cols. 145–174 (OCR by the Internet Archive; lines extracted for this site) - Translation: Claude, from the original text, unless a passage says otherwise; each passage below gives the translator - Editions and translations: Friedrich Müller, ed., Gregorii Nysseni Opera Dogmatica Minora 1, Gregorii Nysseni Opera 3.1 (Leiden: Brill, 1958) (cited only; not reproduced) - Work page: https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/gregory-nyssa-fatum/ - Passages: 11 ## Against Fate, part 1 - URL: https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/gregory-nyssa-fatum/1/#p-1 - Source: PG 45 - Translation: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), 2026-09-27 Summary: Writing to a friend after the conversion of an old unbeliever, Eusebius, Gregory begins his account of a debate in Constantinople with a philosopher who held that every human life, choice, virtue, and vice is fixed by fate, which he defined astrologically as the necessary sequence produced by the interweaving of the stars. ### Greek text Μέμνησαι πάντως ὅ τί μοι γέγονεν, ὅτε πρώην διὰ πολλοῦ παρʼ ὑμᾶς Τὸ μέγα τῆς ἀπιστίας ὄρος, εὐαγγελικῶς εἰπεῖν, εἰς πίστιν μετεκιγήθη· τοῦ σοφωτάτου Εὐσεδίου τῆς πολιᾶς ἀξίως ἐν γήρ βουεὐσαμένου· εἴ τίσιν ἀνθρώπου βουλὴν εἶνα; χρὴ ταύτην λογίσασθαι, καὶ μὴ θείαν τινὰ συμμαχίαν τοῦ διοικοῦντος ἐπ᾽ ἀγαθῷ τὸ ἀνθρώπινον. Τότε δή μοι πρὸς τὸ παράδοξον ἐχπεπληγμένῳ τοῦ θαύματος· πῶς ὁ τοιοῦτος ἐν ἀπιστίᾳ τὸ πρότερον, πολλαπλάσιον τῷ μεγέθει τῆς πίστεως ὑπερέδαλε τῆς ἀπιστίας τὸ μέτρον, ἐπειδή τις προϊούσης ἡμῖν τῆς συνονσίας τῶν κατὰ τὴν εἱμαρμένην ζητουμένων λόγος ἐνέπεσεν, ἐπέταξας, ὦ τιμία μοι καὶ ἱερὰ κεφαλὴ, τὴν γενομένην πρός τινα τῶν φιλοσόφων διάλεξιν ἐν τῇ μεγάλῃ τοῦ Κωνσταντίνου πόλει περὶ τῆς ὑποθέσεως ταύτης ἐγγράφως σοι δι᾽ ἐπιστολῆς διηγήσασθαι. Μικρᾶς τοίνυν ἐπιτυχὼν σχολῆς, δι᾽ ὀλίγων, ὡς οἷόν τξ, συντεμὼν τὸν λόγον, ἐκτίθεμαί σοι ἐν ἁπλῷ καὶ ἀκατασχευάστῳ διηγήματι· φυλασσόμενος ὅτι μάλιστα, τὸ μὴ πόῤῥω τῶν ἐπιστολιμαίων μέτρων ἐκπεσεῖν τὸν λόγον εἰς λογογραφικὸν μῆκος Προσῆγον ἐγώ τινας τῆς καθ᾽ ἡμᾶς εὐσεδείας γοὺς ἀνδρί τινι πεπαιδευμένῳ τὴν ἔξω σοφίαν, ὡς ἐνῆν ἐκ τῶν λεγομένων στοχάσασθαι, καὶ πείθειν ἐπεχείρουν ἐκ τοῦ Ἑ λληνισμοῦ πρὸς τὴν συγκατάθεσιν τοῦ καθ᾽ ἡμᾶς δόγματος μετατάξασθαι. Ἐπεὶ δὲ πολὺς ἣν χατασχευάζξζων μὴ κατ᾽ ἐξουσίαν προκεῖσθαι τοῖς βουλομένοις τῶν κατὰ γνώμην τὴν αἵρεσιν ἀλλὰ διά τινος ἐξάπτων ἀνάγκης τὴν τῶν ἀνθρώπων ζῳὴν, ἧς ἄνευ μὴ ἄν τι γενέσθαι τῶν ἐν ἡμῖν γινομένων. Καὶ τούτῳ τῷ λόγῳ τὸν ἐμὸν παρεχρούετο γον ὡς εἰ μὲν εἵμαρται αὐτῷ γενέσθαι Χριστιανῷ, γενήσεται πάντως κἂν ἡμεῖς μὴ βουλώμεθα ᾿ τῇ τῆς εἱμαρμένης ἀνάγκῃ, μὴ ἂν δυνατὸν ἐξευρεῖν τινα μηχανὴν ἣ τὴν εἱμαρμένην βιάσεται. Ταῦτα λέγοντος, ἐγὼ μὲν, ὅπερ εἰκὸς ἣν, φεύγειν ᾧμην αὑτὸν τὸ μαθεῖν τι περὶ τῆς πίστεως τῷ Ἑλληνισμῷ διὰ βάθους ἐγκείμενον, καὶ τούτῳ τῷ τρόπῳ τὴν ἀκολουθίαν τοῦ ἡμετέρου παρακρούεσθαι λόγου. Ἐπεὶ δὲ οὐκ ἀνίει τοῖς αὐτοῖς ἐπιμένων, πάντα λέγων ὑπεζεῦχθαι τῇ τῆς εἱμαρμένης ἀνάγκῃ, κἀκείνην ἐπιστατεῖν τῶν ὄντων, καὶ τῇ τροπῇ ταύτης πάντα ὑποχύπτειν τὰ ὄντα, ζωῆς τε μέτρα, καὶ ἠθῶν διαφορὰς, καὶ βίων αἱρέσεις, καὶ σωμάτων κατασκευὰς, καὶ τὰς τῶν ἀξιωμάτων ἀνωμαλίας ἄρχειν τε πάντως τὸν καθ᾽ εἱμαρμένην ἐπὶ τὴν ἀρχὴν παριόντα, δουλεύειν τε κατὰ τὴν αὐτὴν αἰτίαν, καὶ πλουτεῖν ὡσαύτως καὶ πένεσθαι· ἐῤῥῶσθαί τε πάλιν τῷ σώματ:, καὶ ἀσθενῶς ἔχειν· τό τε ὠκύμορον καὶ μαχρόδιον, τὴν αὐτὴν ἔχει [ν] αἰτίαν.·Ὃ τε γὰρ ἐν ὀλίγῳ μετασχὼν τῆς ζωῆς, καὶ ἐν μακρῷ τῷ χρόνῳ παρατείνας τὸν ϑίον, οὐ κατὰ οἰκείαν ὁρμὴν, ἀλλ᾽ ἐκ τῆς ἀνάγκης ἐκείνης ἐν ἑκατέρῳ ἑκάτερος γίνεται· τόν τε αὐτόματον καὶ τὸν ἢναγχασμένον θάνατον μὴ ἄλλως ἢ παρ᾽ ἐκείνης ἀποχληροῦσθαι, τοῦ τε βιαίου Ἶ θανάτου τὰς πολυτρόπους διαφορὰς, ἐν συμπτώμασιν ἢ ψήφῳ διχαστιχῇ, ἢ καὶ κατ᾽ ἐπαγομένας. Καὶ τὰ ἔτι τούτων χαθολιχώτερα καὶ περιληπτιχώτερα πάθη, σεισμοὺς καὶ ναυάγια, καὶ ἐπικλύσεις ὑδάτων, καὶ τὰς ἐκ πυρὸς συμφορὰς, καὶ ὅσα τοιαῦτα εἴδη κακῶν πάντα τῆς αἰτίας ἐκείνης ἐξάπτων, προσετίθει καὶ τῶν κατὰ τὸν βίον ἐπιτηδευμάτων μηδαμοῦ τὸν λογισμὸν τοῦ αἱρουμένου κύριον εἶναιʼ πάντας δὲ τῷ χράτε: τῆς εἱμαρμένης ὑπηρετοῦντας, ἢ φιλοσοφεῖν, ἢ ῥητορεύειν, ἢ γεωργεῖν, ἢ ναυτίλλεσθαι, ἣ ἐν γάμῳ ζῇν, ἣ τὸν ἄγαμον αἱρεῖσθαι βίον, ἀρετῆς τε καὶ χκαχίας τὴν αὐτὴν ἀνάγκὴν εἶναι διισχυρίζετο. Ὥστε κατὰ τὴν ἀπαράδατον ταύτην ἀποκλήρωσιν, τὸν μὲν τῇ ὑψηλοτέρᾳ προσἀνέχειν ζωῇ ἐν ἀκτήμονι καὶ ἐλευθερίῳ ζῶντα βίῳ· σθαι, ἣ τῷ ἑταιριχῷ βίῳ ἀποθηλύνεσθαι. Καὶ πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα διεξιὼν, ἰσχυρὰν ᾧετο τοῦ μὴ παραδέξασθα: τὸν λόγον ἡμῶν αἰτίαν ἐπιδεδεῖχθα!,, τὸ μὴ ἐφ᾽ ἡμῖν εἶναι ὅπερ ἂν θέλωμεν κατ᾽ ἐξουσίαν αἱρεῖσθαι, ἀλλὰ δεῖν ἀναμεῖναι τὴν ἀνάγκην ἐκείνην, ἧς τὸ ἐνδόσιμον πρὸς τὴν τοιαύτην ὁρμὴν παρασχούσης ἐπ᾽ ἀνάγκης εἶναι προσθέσθα! τῷ λόγῳ, καὶ μὴ βουλόμενον᾿ ἄνευ δὲ ἐκείνης, καὶ σφόδρα προαιρουμένου, μὴ δυνατὸν εἶναι γενέσθαι. Ἐγὼ δὲ ταῦτα αὐτοῦ καὶ Αἱ τὰ τοιαῦτα διεξιόντος, ἐρόμην αὐτὸν, εἰ Θεόν τινα οἴεται τὸν κατὰ πάντων ἔχοντα κράτος, τὸν τῷ ὀνόματι τῆς εἱμαρμένης ἀποχαλούμενον, οὗ τῷ βουλήματι τὰ καθ᾽ ἕκαστον οἰκονομεῖσθαι πεπίστευκεν. Ὁ δὲ πολλὴν μου καταγνοὺς ματι, Οὔ μοι δοκεῖς κατανενοηκέναι, φησὶ, τῶν οὐρανίων οὐδέν. ἯἮ γὰρ ἂν ἔγνως τῆς εἱμαρμένης τὴν δύναμιν, καὶ ὅπως χατελίφθη τῶν καθʼ εἱρμὸν ἣ δύναμις. Ἐμοῦ δὲ καὶ πρὸς τοῦτον ξενοφωνουμένου τὸν λόγον, καί᾽ τι σαφέστερον ἀξιοῦντος μαθεῖν, πότερον δύναμίν τινα προαιρετικὴν αὐτοχρατῇ τε καὶ ἀδέσποτον, ἐν μένῃ τινὶ ἐξουσίᾳ θεωρουμένην τὴν εἱμαρμένην εἶναι φαντάζεται, ἣ ἄλλο τι παρὰ τοῦτο ὑπείληφε, πάλιν τὸν αὐτὸν ἐπαναλαδὼν λόγον, Ὁ τῶν οὐρανίων, φησὶν, ἐπεσχεμμένος τὴν κίνησιν, τόν τε ζωδιοφόρον κύκλον, καὶ τὰ ἐν αὐτῷ δυοκαίδεκα τμήματα, ᾿ περιγραφῇ τῶν ἐνθεωρουμένων ζωδίων δι᾽ ἴτον ἀπ᾿ ἀλλήλων διεστηκότα, ἑκάστου τε τῶν ἄστρων τὴν ξύναμιν κατανοήσας, τίνα μὲν ἐφ᾽ ἑαντοῦ ἕκαστην ἐκ φύσεως ἰσχὺν ἔχει· τί δὲ ἡ σύνοδος αὐτῶν ἐκ τῆς ποιᾶς πρὸς ἄλχληλᾳ κράσεως ἀπεργάζεται, τῆς κατὰ δύναμιν ἑκάστου αὐτῶν ἰδιότητος μιχθείσης τε τῷ προσεγγισμῷ πρὸς τὴν ἑτέραν, καὶ ἀποχριθείσης διὰ τῆς ἀποστάσεως· τί τε πάλιν ἣ τοῦ χατωτέρου ὑπόόασις ἐργάζεται καὶ τί ἡ τοῦ ὑπερχειμένου κατὰ τὴν πάροδον ἔκλειψις, καὶ πάλιν ἀποκατάστασις, ὅ τε ποικίλος τῶν συνιόντων τε καὶ ἀφισταμένων σχημασχήμασιν, ἣ καὶ ἄλλο τι τῶν κατὰ γεωμετρίαν θεωρουμένων σχημάτων ἀποτελῶν ὁ ταῦτα καὶ τὰ ποιαῦτα κατανοήσας, εἴσεται τῆς εἱμαρμένης τὸ σημαινόμενον, ὅτι τὸ εἱρμῷ τινε ἀπαραδάτῳ κατὰ τὴν ποιὰν συμπλοκὴν τῶν ἀστέρων ἀναγκαίως ἀποτελούμενον τῷ ὀνόματι τῆς εἱμαρμένης διηρμήνευται. ### English translation (Claude) Against Fate You surely remember what happened to me when I was with you recently, [after a long time]. The great mountain of unbelief, to speak in the language of the gospel, was moved to faith, the most wise Eusebius having taken counsel in his old age worthily of his grey hairs, if one should reckon this a man's counsel at all, and not some divine aid [of the one who] governs human life for good. Then, when I was astonished at the unexpectedness of the wonder, how such a man, formerly in unbelief, had surpassed the measure of his unbelief many times over by the greatness of his faith, and as our conversation went on talk turned to the questions about fate, you commanded me, my honoured and sacred head, to relate to you in writing, by letter, the discussion I had with one of the philosophers in the great city of Constantine on this subject. Having found a little leisure, then, I set it out for you briefly, cutting the account short as far as possible, in a simple and unadorned narrative, taking care above all that the account should not fall far beyond the measure of a letter into the length of a treatise. I was bringing certain [arguments] of our religion to a man educated in the outside wisdom, as one could guess from what he said, and was trying to persuade him to change over from Hellenism to assent to our doctrine. But he insisted at length that the choice of what is willed does not lie in the power of those who wish it, but he made human life depend on some necessity, without which none of the things that happen in us would happen. And by this argument he was putting off my [reasoning]: if it was fated for him to become a Christian, he would certainly become one, even if we did not wish it; [but if not], by the necessity of fate, no means could be found that would force fate. When he said this, I thought, as was natural, that he was fleeing from learning anything about the faith, being deeply sunk in Hellenism, and in this way was putting off the course of our argument. But since he did not let up, persisting in the same things, saying that all things were yoked under the necessity of fate, that it presided over beings, and that all beings bowed to its turning, the measures of life, the differences of character, the choices of ways of life, the constitutions of bodies, and the inequalities of rank: that the one who comes to rule by fate certainly rules, and for the same cause one is a slave, and likewise is rich or poor, and again is healthy in body or sick; that a short life and a long life have the same cause; for the one who shares in life for a short time and the one who prolongs his life over a long time each comes to be in each not by his own impulse but from that necessity; that voluntary death and compelled death are allotted by nothing other than it, and the manifold differences of violent death, in accidents, or by the verdict of a court, or by [attacks]; and connecting also with that cause the still more general and comprehensive calamities, earthquakes and shipwrecks and floods of water and disasters from fire, and all such kinds of evils, he added that in the pursuits of life the reasoning of the one who chooses is nowhere master, but that all, serving the power of fate, either practise philosophy, or rhetoric, or farm, or sail, or live in marriage, or choose the unmarried life; and he insisted that there is the same necessity for virtue and vice. So that, according to this inviolable allotment, one devotes himself to the higher life, living a life without possessions and free; [another is drawn to gluttony and drunkenness, or] grows effeminate in a whore's life. And going through all such things, he thought he had shown a strong reason for not accepting our argument: that it is not in our power to choose by our own authority whatever we wish, but that one must wait for that necessity; when it gives the signal for such an impulse, one must of necessity assent to the argument, even unwilling; and without it, even if one chooses vehemently, it cannot happen. While he was going through these and such things, I asked him whether he thought that what is called by the name of fate, by whose will he believed each thing to be governed, is some God who has power over all things. But he, condemning my great [ignorance], said, "You do not seem to me to have understood anything of the heavenly things. For then you would have known the power of fate, and how the power of things in sequence (εἱρμός) was left [to it]." When I was a stranger to this language too, and asked to learn something more clearly, whether he imagined fate to be some power of choice, sovereign and masterless, seen in a [self-sufficient] authority, or supposed it to be something else, he took up the same argument again and said: "The one who has examined the movement of the heavenly bodies, the zodiac circle and the twelve divisions in it, standing equally apart from one another in the outline of the signs seen in them, and has understood the power of each of the stars, what strength each has of itself by nature, what their conjunction works from the particular mixing with one another, the property of the power of each being mixed by approach to the other and separated by distance; and again what the going under of the lower works and what the eclipse of the higher in passing, and again its restoration; and the varied [shapes] of those that come together and stand apart, [forming triangles or squares in their] figures, or some other of the figures seen in geometry, the one who has understood these and such things will know what fate signifies: that what is necessarily brought about by an inviolable sequence (εἱρμός), according to the particular interweaving of the stars, is interpreted by the name of fate (εἱμαρμένη)." ### Scripture references - Matt 17:20: allusion, medium confidence - Matt 21:21: allusion, medium confidence ### Translation notes - No public-domain English translation is known to us and the editor's library has no FOTC volume for this treatise; the translation was re-read against the Greek. εἱμαρμένη "fate", εἱρμός "sequence" (the etymology is the philosopher's), μοῖρα "portion", προαίρεσις "choice". The addressee is not named; the "most wise Eusebius" is otherwise unknown. - "The great mountain of unbelief … moved to faith" alludes to Matt 17:20 / 21:21. Lines are lost in the scan in the opening sentences and in the list of astrological figures; words supplied by sense are in brackets. Latin leaks are removed by logged corrections. ### Citation (SBL) Gregory of Nyssa, Fat. 1 (PG 45; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/gregory-nyssa-fatum/1). ## Against Fate, part 2 - URL: https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/gregory-nyssa-fatum/1/#p-2 - Source: PG 45 - Translation: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), 2026-09-27 Summary: Gregory asks whether fate is a God ruling all or the servant of a higher cause; since fate follows the movement of the stars and would not exist if they stood still, it cannot be master of all; the philosopher replies that fate is not a being but the result of the universe's sympathy, the stars' powers mixing like drugs. ### Greek text Ἐπεὶ δέ με καὶ τοῦτο πάλιν ἐξένιζεν· οὐ γὰρ συνίην τῶν λεγομένων οὐδὲν, ἅτε μὴ πεπαιδευμένος ταύτην τὴν παίδευσιν· ἠξίουν, δι᾽ ὧν ἦν μοι δυνατὸν γνῶναι τὴν τῆς εἱμαρμένης διάνοιαν, διὰ τούτων μοι φανερὺν ποιεῖν τὸ λεγόμενον. Τοὺς γὰρ ἀστρῴους χλους ἄλλον ἄλλῳ ἐγχεῖσθα:, καὶ τὴν ἐναντίαν χίένησιν τῇ ἀπλανεῖ περιφορᾷ κατὰ τὸ ἐντὸς ἀνελίσσεσθαι, καὶ πάντας ταύτους τῷ ζωδιακῷ ἐνδινεῖσθαι κύκλῳ· ραγίοτὶ, δ)ὺὶ ἀδο! πεῖ δεῖν ὑγονΐ ἴ6πι- ταῦτα καὶ παρ᾽ ἑτέρων εἶπον ἀκηκοέναι, καὶ ἐκ τοῦ ἀκολούθου μὴ ἀμφιδάλλειν, τὰς τῶν φωστήρων αὐγὰς κατὰ τὴν ἰδιάζουσαν ἐκάστῳ τῶν πόλων χυχλοφορίαν προσεγγίξειν τε καὶ ἀφίστασθαι, καὶ ὑποδαένειν τὸν ΠΟΠΥ̓ΘΓΒΙΟ. κατώτερον, καὶ κρύπτεσθαι τὸν ὑπερκείμενον ἀπὸ τῶν ἡμετέρων ὄψεων, εἰ κατὰ νώτου γένοιτο τοῦ ὑποδαίνοντος· καὶ πάντα ὅσα εἰκὸς ἐκ τοῦ ἀκολούθου λογίσασθαι, εἴτε τι σχῆμα διὰ τούτων ἀποτελεῖται, ὅταν ὁ κύκλος περιστῇ διὰ τῆς ἰδίας κινήσεως τὸ ἐφ᾽ ἑαυτοῦ κείμενον ἄστρον - ὥστε ἣ κατ᾽ εὐθεῖαν τοῦ ὑπερκειμένον γενέσθαι, ἣ πλαγιάσαι κατὰ τὴν πάροδον, εἴτε δι᾽ ὀλίγου τοῦ χρονικοῦ διαστήματος, εἴτε διὰ πλείονος ἑκάστου τούτων ἡ περίοδας γίνεται, κατὰ τὸ μέγεθος τῆς καθ᾽ ἕκαστον τῶν κύκλων ἀναλογίας, ἀναγκαίως ἣ θᾶττον ἣ βράδιον τῆς ἀναστροΤαῦτα πάντα καὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα σιγᾷν ἠξίουν, μόνον δέ μοι σαφῶς ἐκχαλύπτειν τῆς εἱμαρμένης τὴν δύνα. μιν, Θεός τίς ἐστιν ὁ τῷ ὀνόματι τῆς εἱμαρμένης νοούμενος, καὶ τοῦ παντὸς ἐξημμένος τὸ κράτος, καὶ : Βὶ πάντα κατ᾽ ἐξουσίαν τῷ ὑπερέχοντι τῆς δυνάμεως πρὸς τὸ δοκοῦν διοικούμενος· ἢ ἄλλης τινὸς ὑπερκειμένης ἐνεργείας ὑπουργὸν εἶναι τὴν τῆς εἱμαρμένης ὑποτίθεται δύναμιν, ὥστε καὶ αὐτὴν τρόπον τινὰ ὑπὸ ἑτέραν εἱμαρμένην κεῖσθαι, τῇ ὑπερεχούσῃ συνδιατιθεμένην αἰτίᾳ. Εἰ μὲν γὰρ αὕτη τὸ κατὰ πάντων ἔχειν κράτος πεπίστευται, τὸ μηδὲν ὑ ἴσθα: ταύτης ἡ ἀκολουθία τοῦ λόγου δίδωσιν οἴεσθαι. Εἰ δὲ τῇ κινήσει τῶν ἄστρων ἀκολουθοῦσαν τὴν εἱμαρμένὴν, κρατεῖν αὐτὴν βιαίᾳ τινὶ ἀνάγκῃ τῶν πάντων διισχυρίζεται, ἀσφαλέστερον ἦν τῷ προηγουμένῳ μᾶλλον ἣ τῷ ἑπομένῳ τὴν παντοδύναμον ταύτην προσμαρτυρεῖν ἐξουσίαν· καὶ τὰ ἄστρα τούτων αἴτια λέγειν, ἣ τὴν ἀπλανῆ περιφορὰν, ἣ τοὺς ἐντὸς ταύτῆς ἐνθεωρουμένου; κύκλους, ἣ τὸν ραγμένον τῷ πόλῳ κχύχλον. Εἰ γάρ τις δοίη καθ᾽ ὑπόθεσιν μὴ κινεῖσθαι ταῦτα, μηδὲ διὰ τῆς ἀϊδίου χυχλοφορίας, ἣ ἐν ἀλλήλοις· ἀπ᾽ ἀλλήλων γίνεσθαι, ἀλλ᾽ ἐπὶ τοῦ αὐτοῦ σχήματος ὡσαύτως ἔχειν ἀεί· οὐκ ἂν ἡ εἱμαρμένη συσταίη. Εἰ οὖν ἡ κίνησις τῶν ἄστρων τίκτει τὴν εἱμαρμένην, ἄρα μάτην ἐπικρατεῖν αὕτη τῶν ἄλλων νομίζεται, ἣ τῇ ὑπερκειμένῃ αἰτίᾳ δουλεύουσα, καὶ μὴ ἂν οὖσα; εἰ μὴ ἡ κίνησις ἣν. ᾿Αλλ᾽ οὐ τοῦτο, φησὶν ὁ φιλόσοφος ἐκεῖνος, οὐκ οὕτως ὁ ἡμέτερος νομίζει λόγος, τὸ εἶναι αὐτὴν ἐφ᾽ ἑαυτὴν τὴν εἱμαρμένην ἐν ὑποστάσει τινὶ θεωρουμένην᾿ ἀλλ᾽ ἐπειδὴ μία τίς ἐστιν ἐν τοῖς οὖσι συμπάθεια, καὶ συνεχές ἐστι τὸ πᾶν ἑαυτῷ, καὶ τὰ καθ᾽ ἕκαστον ἐν τῷ παντὶ θεωρούμενα οἷον ἐπὶ σώματος ἑνὸς ἐν μιᾷ συμπνοίᾳ χαταλαμθάνεται, πάντων πρὸς ἄλληλα πῶὥν μερῶν συννευόντων. Τούτου χάριν ἀρχηγικωτέρας οὔσης τῆς ἄνω λήξεως, τὰ περίγεια πάντα πῷ προηγουμένῳ συνδιατίθεται ’ καὶ πρὸς ἐκεῖνο νεύξ: κατὰ τὴν ἄνω κίνησιν, καὶ τῶν τῇδε πραγμάτων ἐξ ἀνάγκης συγχινουμένων· ἐν διαφόρῳ δὲ, καθὼς εἴρηται, τῇ δυνάμει ἑκάστου τῶν ἄστρων θεωρουμένον. Ὥσπερ ἐπὶ τῆς ἰατρικῆς φαρμακείας, αἱ τῶν εἰδῶν ποιότητες λόγῳ τινὶ τεχνικῶς συμμιχθεῖσαι, ἄλλο τι τὸ ἐκ τοῦ κοινοῦ συγκραθὲν ἀπειργάσαντο, καὶ οὐκ ὅπερ ἕκαστον ἦν πρὸ τῆς πρὸ; ἄλληλα μίξεως· οὕτω καὶ τῶν ἀστρῴων δυνάμεων ἐν διαφόῥροις ἰδιότησι θεωρουμένων, ἡ ποικίλη κατὰ τοὺς αὐτῶν καὶ τὰς τῶν διαφόρων ἰδιωμάτων συμπλοκὴ, τὰς ποιχῆλας; ### English translation (Claude) Since this too was strange to me (for I understood nothing of what was said, not having been educated in this learning), I asked him to make what he said plain to me through things by which it was possible for me to know the meaning of fate. For [I said] that the circles of the stars are set one within another, and revolve inwardly with a motion contrary to the revolution of the fixed sphere, and all of them wheel within the zodiac circle: these things I said I had heard from others too, and did not doubt the consequence, that the lights of the luminaries approach and stand apart according to the revolution peculiar to each of the spheres, and the lower goes under, and the higher is hidden from our sight if it comes to be behind the one going under; and all that it is reasonable to reckon in consequence, whether some figure is produced by these when the circle by its own motion carries round the star set in it, so that it comes to be either in a straight line with the higher or slanting in its passage; whether the period of each of these comes about through a short interval of time or a longer one, according to the size of the proportion of each of the circles, the return necessarily [coming about] faster or slower. All these and such things I asked him to leave in silence, and only to uncover to me clearly the power of fate: whether what is understood by the name of fate is some God, holding power over the universe and governing all things by authority as he sees fit by the superiority of his power; or whether he supposes the power of fate to be the servant of some other higher activity, so that it too in a way lies under another fate, disposed along with the superior cause. For if this is believed to have power over all things, the consequence of the argument lets us think that nothing is [above] it. But if he maintains that fate, following the movement of the stars, rules all things by some violent necessity, it would be safer to testify this all-powerful authority to what leads rather than to what follows, and to call the stars the causes of these things, or the revolution of the fixed sphere, or the circles seen within it, or the circle [fixed] to the pole. For if someone should grant by hypothesis that these do not move, either by their eternal revolution or [by approaching and withdrawing] from one another, but always remain in the same figure, fate would not come into being. If, then, the movement of the stars begets fate, is it not in vain that fate is thought to rule the rest, since it serves the higher cause and would not exist if the movement did not exist? "But that is not it," says the philosopher; "our account does not hold that fate is something in itself, seen in a subsistence of its own. But since there is a certain single sympathy in beings, and the universe is continuous with itself, and the individual things seen in the universe are grasped as in one body in one common breath, all the parts inclining toward one another, for this reason, since the upper region is more governing, all earthly things are disposed together with what leads, and incline toward it according to the upper movement, the things here being of necessity moved together with it, with the power of each of the stars, as has been said, seen in difference. As in the medical art of drugs, the qualities of the ingredients, mixed skilfully in a certain proportion, produce something else blended from what is common, and not what each was before their mixing with one another, so too, since the stellar powers are seen in different properties, the varied [movement] of them and the interweaving of the different properties [produce] the varied ### Translation notes - Re-read against the Greek. The cosmology (planetary spheres within the fixed sphere, moving in the contrary direction within the zodiac) is the common ancient picture, given in Gregory's words. Words lost in the scan are supplied in brackets. ### Citation (SBL) Gregory of Nyssa, Fat. 2 (PG 45; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/gregory-nyssa-fatum/2). ## Against Fate, part 3 - URL: https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/gregory-nyssa-fatum/1/#p-3 - Source: PG 45 - Translation: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), 2026-09-27 Summary: The philosopher explains that the stellar outflow changes every instant and stamps each newborn like a seal in wax; Gregory ridicules the idea that a lifeless, partless instant could rule living, choosing beings, and argues that neither the star nor the child can be said to lead, since both are already in motion. ### Greek text τῶν κατὰ τὸν βίον ἀποτελουμένων διαφορὰς ἐξεργάζεται· οἷόν τινος ἀποῤῥοῆς ἀδιασπάστως ἐκεῖθεν ἐφ᾽ ἡμᾶς διηχούσης. Διά τοι τοῦτο καὶ παρὰ τῶν ἐπιτὰ τοιαῦτα φιλοσοφούντων, αἱ προῤῥήσεις τῶν ἐσομένων οὐκ ἁμαρτάνονται. Ὡς γὰρ ὁ τῆς ἰατρικῆς ἐπιστήμων, εἰ τὸ θερμὸν ἢ ναρχῶδες φάρπρολέγει τὴν συστησομένην ἐκ τῆς τῶν ἑτεροφυῶν μίξεως ἰδιότητα, καὶ τί κατεργάζεται, καὶ μέχρι τίνος τὴν ἰσχὺν ἕξει, καὶ τίνι μὲν ὀλέθριον, τίνι δὲ ἀλεξιτήριον γίνεται· οὕτως καὶ ὁ τοῖς ἄνω δι᾿ ἐπιμελείας προσεσχηκὼς, καὶ τὴν ἑκάστου τῶν ὄντων φύσιν κατανοῆσας,, εἴσεται τὴν ἐκ τῆς ποιᾶς αὐτῶν συμπλοκῇς δύναμιν τί ἀποτελέσει· αὕτη δὲ ἡ ἀποῤὑῥοὴ, οὐδὲ ἐν ὀλίγῳ πρὸς ἑαυτὴν ὁμοίως ἔχει. ᾿Αλλὰ διὰ τὸ ἀστατεῖν ἀεὶ τῶν ἐπιπλεχομένων ἀλλήλως ἄστρων τὴν κίνησιν, ἀναγκαίως κἀκείνη τῇ συνεχείᾳ τῆς κατὰ τὴν κίνησιν ἑτερότητος συναλλοιοῦται· ἀεὶ συμμεταχιρναμένη τῇ ποικιλίᾳ τῆς κινήσεως, καὶ τὰς ἐνεργείας αὑτῆς τῇ χινήῆσει τῶν ἄστρων συνεξαλλάσσουσα. ἯΣς τῶν ἐπὶ τὸν βίον παραγαμένων ἕκαστος, κατὰ τὴν ἐν τῷ ἀκαρεῖ τοῦ διαστήματος ἐπιτυχοῦσαν αὐτῷ μοῖραν σπάσας,, ἐκεῖνο γίνεται, ὅπερ ἣ ἰδιότης τοῦ μέρους ἐκείνου προεμήνυσέ τε καὶ ἀπετέλεσεν. ᾿Ανάγκη γὰρ πᾶσα καθάπερ ἐν ἐχμαγείῳ σφραγῖδος τῷ ἐντεθέντι κηρῷ τὸ κατὰ τὴν γλυφὴν εἶδος περιτυποῦται- οὕτως καὶ τοῦ ἀνθρώπον τὸν βίον, ᾧ ἂν συνενεχθῇ μορίῳ τῆς ἀποῤῥεούσης δυνάμεως ἐκ τῆς τῶν ἄστρων κινήσεως, κατὰ τὴν ἐκείνου τοῦ μέρους ἰδιότητα τυποῦσθαι· κἀκεῖνο γίνεσθαι, ὅπερ εἶχεν ἐν ἑαυτῇ τῆς ἀποῤῥοίας ἡ μοῖρα, ἔσπασεν εὐθὺς τοῦ βίου ἀρχόμενος· ἧ ἅπαξ ἐνσφραγισθεὶς κατὰ τὴν ἐχεῖ θεωρηθεῖσαν δύναμιν, ἀναγκαίως ἐν τῇ κατὰ τὸν βίον ἰδιότητι συμμορφοῦται ᾿ ταῦτα ποιῶν ἣ πάσχων, ὧν τὰς ἀρχὰς ἣ τὰς αἰτίας ἣ πρώτη ἔἕντευξις τῆς ἀστρῴας ἐκείνης ἀποῤῥοῆς κατεδάλετο. Ἐγὼ δὲ τούτων λεγομένων, Οὐ παύσῃ, πρὸς αὐτὸν εἶπον, φληνάφους ἐμοὶ λόγους καὶ λήρους διεξιὼν, πὸ ἀμερὲς ἐκεῖνο μέρος τῆς ἐν ἀκαρεῖ μετουσίας, τῷ ἄνωθεν ἡμῖν, ὡς φὴς, ἐπιῤῥεῖν τῶν πάντων αἴτιον τῶν ἐν ἡμῖν χατασχευνάζων, οὔτε εἰ ἔμψυχον τοῦτο καὶ προαιρετικόν ἐστι λέγων, οὔτε ὅπως χαταχρατεῖ τῶν ἐμψύχων τὸ ἄψυχόν τε καὶ ἀνυπόστατον, καὶ μηδεμίαν ἐκ φύσεως ἰδίαν ἔχον ὁρμὴν δεῖξαι δυνάμεγος, ἀλλὰ πάσης βουλῆς καὶ τῆς ἐκ τῶν λογισμῶν προμηθείας, παιδεύσεώς τε καὶ ἐπιμελείας, καὶ τῶν κατ᾽ ἀρετὴν ἐπιτηδευμάτων, καθάπερ τινὰ τύβᾶννον ἣ δεσπότην, τὸ ἄψυχόν τε καὶ ἀπροαίρετον, ἄστατόν τε καὶ παροδιχὸν, καὶ ἀμερὲς, καὶ ἀνυπόστατον ἐπιστήσας τῷ λόγῳ; Τῆς ἐκείνου δυνάμεως ἐξάπτεις τὴν τῶν ὄντων σύστασίν τε καὶ διοίκησιν, καὶ οὐκ ὁρᾷς εἰς οἵας ὁ λόγος ἀτοπίας ἐκφέρεται ; Εἰ γὰρ τοσαύτην ἔχε: δύναμιν ἐκείνης τῆς ἀποῤῥοῆς ἢ μοῖρα, ὡς κατ᾽ αὐτὴν τοὺς παρὰ τὴν πρώτην πάροον γεγονότας ἀποτελεῖν· πάντως ὅτι οὐκ ἐπαχολουθητικῶς, ἀλλὰ προηγουμένως τῆς τῶν ὄντων συστάσεως ἐξηγήσεται. Οὐκοῦν ἐκείνη προάξει κατὰ τὴν ἰδίαν δύναμιν τὸν τικτόμενον, καὶ οὐχὶ τῇ τοῦ ἐνταῦθα ποῖον τίνος ἀρχηγιχώτερον, ἀμφοτέρων ἐν τῷ ἀκαρεῖ κατὰ τὸ ἶσον ἀλλήλοις συμφερομένων, Ὃ τε γὰρ ἄνθρωπος καὶ πρὸ τῆς ἐξόδου τῶν σπλάγχνωὼν ἐν κινήσει πώς ἐστι, διὰ μειώσεώς τε καὶ αὖ ταπ.. Ηΐς δπὶπὶ ρεγραοίυ5 δὶ, ἴΠ|Ὸ πο Ργυ τ ρ υγ : ξήσεως ἐν τῇ φύσει κινούμενος (ἐπεὶ καὶ τοῦτο κινήσεως εἶδός ἐστι) τό τε ἄστρον καὶ πρὸ τοῦ τὸν ἄνθρωπον τοῦ ἀέρος σπᾶσαι,, φέρεται καὶ οὐκ ἵσταται· ἥ τε συντυχία κατὰ τὸ ἶσον τῶν διὰ κινήσεως ἀλλήλοις συντυγχανόντων, ἄπορον ποιεῖ τοῦ προηγουμένου τὴν κρίσιν. Καὶ γὰρ κἀκεῖνα κινεῖται διὰ τῶν κύκλων, καὶ τοῦτο διὰ τῆς φύσεως ὁδεῦον φέρεται. ### English translation (Claude) differences of what is brought about in life, as though some outflow reached us from there without interruption. For this reason the predictions of the future made by those who study such things do not fail. For as the one who knows the medical art, [if he knows] the hot or numbing [drug], foretells the property that will arise from the mixing of things of different natures, and what it works, and how far its strength will reach, and for whom it becomes deadly and for whom an antidote, so too the one who has attended diligently to the heavenly things and understood the nature of each of them will know what the power from their particular interweaving will bring about. And this outflow is never like itself even for a short time; but because the movement of the stars that interweave with one another is always unstable, it too necessarily changes with the continuity of the otherness in the movement, always being mixed anew with the variety of the movement and changing its activities with the movement of the stars. Each of those who come into life, having drawn from this outflow the portion that met him in the instant of the interval, becomes that which the property of that part foretold and brought about. For of every necessity, as in the impression of a seal the form of the engraving is stamped on the wax put into it, so the life of man is stamped according to the property of that part of the power flowing from the movement of the stars which it happened to meet; and he becomes that which the portion of the outflow held in itself, which he drew in at once at the beginning of life. Once sealed by it, according to the power seen there, he is necessarily conformed in the character of his life, doing or suffering those things whose beginnings or causes the first encounter with that stellar outflow laid down." When this was said, I said to him: "Will you not stop going through silly talk and nonsense to me, making that partless part of momentary participation, which flows upon us from above, as you say, the cause of all that is in us, neither saying whether it is living and capable of choice, nor able to show how what is lifeless and without subsistence, with no impulse of its own from nature, prevails over living beings, but setting over every will, every forethought of reasoning, education, diligence, and the practices of virtue, like a tyrant or master, what is lifeless and without choice, unstable and passing, partless and without subsistence? Do you make the constitution and government of beings depend on its power, and not see into what absurdities the argument is carried? For if that portion of the outflow has such power as to make those who come to be at its first passing according to itself, it will surely lead the constitution of beings not by following but by going before. So it will bring forth the one being born according to its own power, and not [be determined by] the [birth] here. [But one cannot say] which leads which, since both come together equally in the instant. For man, even before he comes out of the womb, is in a way in motion, moved in nature by diminution and increase (for this too is a kind of motion); and the star, before the man draws in the air, is carried along and does not stand still; and the meeting, being equal on the part of those that meet one another through motion, makes the judgment of what leads impossible. For those move through their circles, and this one is carried along journeying through nature. ### Translation notes - Re-read against the Greek. A Latin leak in Gregory's reply is removed by a logged correction; some lost words near the end are supplied in brackets. ### Citation (SBL) Gregory of Nyssa, Fat. 3 (PG 45; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/gregory-nyssa-fatum/3). ## Against Fate, part 4 - URL: https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/gregory-nyssa-fatum/1/#p-4 - Source: PG 45 - Translation: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), 2026-09-27 Summary: If births followed the ever-moving stars, births would never cease; Gregory reduces to absurdity the astrologers' fine divisions of the hour, each a supposed all-powerful portion, and contrasts the man who lives a happy century with the infant strangled at birth. ### Greek text Εἰ δὲ ἐν ἑνὶ μέρει τοῦ χρόνου ἀμφοτέροις ἣ πρὸς ἀλλήλους σύνοδος γίνεται, τίς ἡ πρὸς ἄλληλα τούτων διαφορὰ, ὥστε τοῦ ἑτέρου τὸ ἕτερον αἰτιώτερον οἴεσθαι; Εἰ γὰρ διὰ τὰ ἄστρα ὁ ἄνθρωπος, πάντοτε ἂν ἔῤῥει ἡ φύσις διὰ γεννήσεως, οὐδὲ ἐν ἀκαρεῖ τι διάλειμμα τῆς ἀνθρωπίνης παρόδου ἐπιδειχνύουσα. Εἰ δὲ πολλαὶ τῶν γινομένων αἱ μεταξὺ διαστάσεις, σαΒ φῶς ἀποδείκνυται τὸ, μὴ τῇ κινήσει τῶν ἄστρων τὴν ἀνθρωπίνην ἕπεσθαι γένεσιν. Ἧ μὲν γὰρ, ἀεὶ κινεῖται· ἡ δὲ, οὐκ ἀεὶ γεννᾶται· ἀλλ᾽ ἰδίῳ τοῦτο εἱρμῷ, κἀκεῖνο πάλιν ἰδιαζόντως ἐφ᾽ ἑαυτοῦ φέρεται, οὐδεμιᾶς ἀνάγκης συναπτούσης πρὸς ἄλληλα τὰ διεστῶτα πῇ φύσει· εἰ δὲ τοῦτο ὁ ὑμέτερος γος, τὸ ἐπ᾽ ἐκείνῃ τῇ μοίρᾳ τοῦ χρόνου τὴν αἰτίαν τῶν κατὰ τὸν βίον ἁπάντων κεῖσθαι, σχάπησον ὅσας μυριάδας δεσποτῶν καὶ τυράννων, ἡμέρα πᾶσα καὶ νὺξ ὡσαύτως κατὰ τὰς λεπτὰς ἐκείνας καὶ ἀχαρεῖς τοῦ χρόνου τομὰς ἀπεργάζεται· εἰς τέσσαρας καὶ εἴκοσιν ὥρας νυκτὸς καὶ ἡμέρας, ὥς φατε, διῃρημένων· ἑκάστης δὲ ὥρας, ἑξήκοντα τμήμασι μεριζομένης - πάλιν δὲ τῶν τμημάτων τούτων ἑκάστου κατὰ τὸ ἰσάριθμον χερματιζομένου· ὡς δέ φασιν , ὑμῶν οἱ εἰς τὴν λεπτοτέραν τῶν τοιούτων παρατήρησιν τῷ λόγῳ διαδυόμενοι, ὅτι καὶ τούτων ἕκαστον πάλιν τῶν λεγομένων τμημάτων ἰσαρίθμῳ διαιρέσει πλῆθος τῶν ἀχαριαίων ἐκείνων θεῶν, ἣ δεσποτῶν, ἢ τυράννων, ἣ οὐκ οἶδ᾽ ὅπως χρὴ λέγειν, μιᾶς πλέον χκαὺ εἴκοσι μυριάδων ἐστίν. Εἰ δὲ μία ὥρα τοσαύτας μοιρῶν ἡμῖν μυριάδας ποιεῖ, αἱ τέσσαρες καὶ εἴχοπι κατὰ λόγον τῆς μιᾶς πάντως πολλαπλασιασθεῖσας, τὰς ἀπείρους τῶν μοιρῶν μυριάδας ἀπογεννῶσιν. ᾿Αλλὰ μὴν τούτων ἑκάστην ἀπαράδατον δύναμιν ἔχειν ὁ΄ ὑμέτερος δεισχυρίζεται λόγος. Οὐκοῦν ἀκόλουθον μηδεμίαν αὐτῶν ἄπρακτον εἶναι. Οὐ γὰρ ἂν τῆς δυνάμεως ἴδιον τὴν ἀπραξίαν εἴποις, ἀλλ᾽ ἐν τῇ ἐνεργείᾳ πάντως καθορᾶται ἡ δύναμις. Οὐκοῦν ἴσα καὶ τὰ τῆς δυνάμεώς ἐστιν ἀποτελέσματα· ὥστε ὅσα μήματα,, τοσαῦται καὶ τῶν ἀνθρώπων γενέσεις ἐξ ἀνάγκης καθ᾽ ἑκάστην ὥραν συστήσονται. Καὶ εἴπερ ἐκάστῃ μοίρᾳ τὸ δυνατὸν ὁμοίως προσμαρτυρεῖσθαι προσήκει, πάντας ἐπ᾽ ἴσης βασιλέας, μαχροδίους, δυνατοὺς, εὐχλήρους, εὐδαίμονας, καὶ ὅσα τῆς τιμιωτέρας λήξεως εἶνα: νομίζεται, τὸ τῆς δυνάμεως ὁμότιμον ἀπεργάζεται· ἡ γὰρ ἔλλειψις τούτων τινὸς, τοῦ γατὰ τὴν δύναμιν ἀτελοῦς κατηγορία γίνεται. Οὐ γὰρ ἄν τις ἴσην προσμαρτυρήσειε δύναμιν, τῷ τε μεγάλα καὶ μικρὰ ἐνεργήσαντι. Οἷον, ὁ μὲν ὑπερδέθηχεν ἑκατὸν ἔτη ἐν γήρᾳ λιπαρῷ καὶ εὐδαίμονι, παισὶν εὐθηνούμενος, ἐκγόνοις δορυφορούμενος, καὶ τῷ μετὰ τούτους ἐπαγαλλόμεγος γένε!, ἄνοσος, ἀπήμων, ἐπίτιμος, ἄλυπος, πλούτου δαψιλῶς ἔχων, καὶ εἴ τι ἄλλο τῶν κατὰ τὸν βίον τοῦτον ἐν τιμίοις νενόμισται, διὰ πάντων μακαριζόμενος. Ἕτερος, ὁμοῦ παραχθῆναι εἰς φῶς, χατεπνίγη· οἷα δὴ πολλὰ τῶν γινομένων ἐστὶν ἑταιρικὰ ἣ μοιχίδια βρέφη, ἅπερ τῶν μητέρων αἱ παρανόμως χυήσασαι, ταῖς ἑαυτῶν χερσὶ διαχειριζόμεναι, θανάτῳ τὸν ἔλεγχον κλέ· ποῦ ἡ δύναμις ἐπὶ τούτων τῆς μοίρας ; Πῶς εἰς τὸ αὐτὸ τῆς ζωῆς μέτρον ἡ τῆς εἱμαρμένης ἰσχὺς οὖκ ἐξήρκεσεν ; Εἰ γὰρ τὸ δυνατὸν αὐτῇ προσμαρτυρεῖν ὁ ὑμέτερος λόγος οἴεται δεῖν, ἐπίσης πᾶσι τοῖς εὖσιν ἡ ἰσχὺς αὐτῆς φανήσεται. Οὐ γὰρ τὸ μὲν ἰσχύσει, τὸ δὲ οὐ δυνήσεται, εἴπερ ἀληθῶς ἐν δυνάμει καταλαμβάνεται· ἡ δὲ δύναμις, διὰ τῶν ἀποτελεσμάτων γνωρίζεται. ### English translation (Claude) But if the meeting of the two with each other happens in one part of time, what difference is there between them, so as to think the one more a cause than the other? For if man exists because of the stars, nature would always be flowing through birth, showing not even an instant's interval in the coming of human beings. But if there are many intervals between births, it is clearly shown that human birth does not follow the movement of the stars. For the one is always moving, while the other is not always being born; but this is carried along in its own sequence, and that again on its own by itself, no necessity joining to each other things separate by nature. If this is your [argument], that the cause of all things in life lies in that portion of time, consider how many tens of thousands of masters and tyrants every day and night alike produce according to those fine and instantaneous sections of time. Night and day, as you say, are divided into twenty-four hours, each hour divided into sixty sections, and again each of these sections cut into the same number; and, as those of you who penetrate in argument to the finer observation of such things say, each of these sections again by a division of the same number [is divided]: so that the multitude of those momentary gods, or masters, or tyrants, or I do not know what to call them, is more than two hundred and ten thousand. If one hour makes us so many tens of thousands of portions, the twenty-four, multiplied in proportion to the one, beget the boundless tens of thousands of portions. Yet your argument maintains that each of these has an inviolable power. So it follows that none of them is inactive. For you would not call inactivity proper to power; power is surely seen in activity. So the effects of the power are equal too, so that as many [sections] as there are, so many births of men will of necessity come about every hour. And if possibility must be testified equally to each portion, the equality of power makes all equally kings, long-lived, powerful, fortunate, happy, and whatever else is thought to belong to the more honourable lot; for the lack of any of these becomes an accusation of imperfection in the power. For no one would testify to equal power in one who worked great things and in one who worked small. For example, one man passed a hundred years in a sleek and happy old age, flourishing with children, escorted by grandchildren, exulting in the generation after them, without disease, without harm, honoured, without grief, with wealth in plenty, and called blessed in all that is held honourable in this life. Another was choked as soon as he was brought into the light; such are many of the babes born to harlots or in adultery, whom their mothers, having conceived unlawfully, make away with by their own hands, hiding the proof by death. Where is the power of the portion in these? How did the strength of fate not suffice for the same measure of life? For if your argument thinks one must testify power to it, its strength will appear equally in all beings. For it will not prevail in one and be powerless in another, if it is truly grasped as power; and power is known through its effects. ### Translation notes - Re-read against the Greek. The figure of "more than two hundred and ten thousand" portions follows the scan (μιᾶς πλέον καὶ εἴκοσι μυριάδων); Gregory's arithmetic (24 hours × 60 × 60 × 60 would give a different number) is reported as written. The mention of infants killed by mothers who conceived in harlotry or adultery is Gregory's example; translated as written. ### Citation (SBL) Gregory of Nyssa, Fat. 4 (PG 45; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/gregory-nyssa-fatum/4). ## Against Fate, part 5 - URL: https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/gregory-nyssa-fatum/1/#p-5 - Source: PG 45 - Translation: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), 2026-09-27 Summary: The inequality of human lots shows fate to be weak more often than strong; if it chooses happiness for one and misery for another born moments later, it is unjust; if it cares for neither, it is lifeless and without subsistence and cannot rule the living; at most it is the passing instant of time, which accompanies every motion alike. ### Greek text Οὐκοῦν οὐδεμίαν ἀνωμαλίαν ὁ βίος ἕξει, πάντων ὁμοίως τὸ ἀκρότατον τῆς εὐδαιμονίας μέτρον ἐν ἑαυτοῖς δεικνύντων, διὰ τὸ πάντας μὲν κατὰ τὸν λόγον ὑμῶν, ὑπὸ τὴν εἱμαρμένην κεῖσθαι, πάντα δὲ ταύτην ἀεὶ δύνασθα: λέγειν ὑμᾶς. Εἰ οὖν καὶ πάντα καὶ ἀεὶ δύναται ἡ εἱμαρμένη αὕτη, πάντα ἐπὶ πάντων δυνήσεται. ᾿Αλλὰ μὴν πολλαὶ καὶ ποικίλαι τοῖς ἀνθρώποις τοῦ βίου διαφοραὶ, κατά τε τὰς ἀξίας καὶ τὰς περιουσίας, καὶ τὰ τῶν χρόνων μέτρα, καὶ τὰς τῶν σωμάτων κράσεις, καὶ πάντα ὅσα δι᾿ ὧν ἣ μακαριστός τις ἣ ἄθλιος ὀνομάζεται. ΓΑρα τὸ μὴ πάντα δύνασθαι τὴν ἀναπλασθεῖσαν ἐκείνην τῷ λόγῳ μοῖραν ἣ εἱμαρμένην, ἡ τῶν ἀποτελεσμάτων ἀν!:σότης σαφῶς ἐπιδείκνυσιν. Εἰ γὰρ μαχρόδιον δυνάμεως ἔργον νομίζομεν, ἀσθενείας πάντως ἐστὶ τὸ ὠκύμορον. Οὐκοῦν, τὴν μὲν ἀσθενεῖν τῶν εἱμαρμένων τὴν δὲ δύνασθαι δογματίξειν προσἤκει, Ἐπειδὴ γὰρ ἐναντίον τῷ πολυχρονίῳ τὸ ὁλιγόδιον, διὰ τῶν ἐναντίων ὑφίσταται πάντως τούτων ξχάτερον. Οὐ γὰρ ἄν τις τῆς αὐτῆς αἰτίας ἐξάψειε μακαρισμόν τε καὶ ἀθλιότητα, ἀλλ᾽ εἴπερ τοῦττοχατορθωθείη διὰ τοῦ δύνασθαι, τὸ ἕτερον οὐ συνέστη πάντως παρὰ τὴν τῆς δυνάμεως ἔλλειψιν. Οὐδενὶ γὰρ θῆναι γενέσθαι μακάριον. ᾿Αλλὰ μὴν πλείους παρὰ τὸν βίον οἱ ἄθλιοι. Οὐκοῦν, πλείων ἡ ἀσθένεια τῆς εἱμαρμένης παρὰ τὴν δύναμιν ἐπιδείκνυται. Ποῦ οὖν ἡ ἄμαχος ἐκείνη καὶ παντοδύναμος καὶ ἀπαράδατος ἀνάγκη, ὥστε ἐπ᾽ ἐκείνῃ τίθεσθαι πάντων τῶν κατὰ τὸν βίον οἰκονομουμένων τὴν ἐξουσίαν, ἧτις ἀπηλέγχθη διὰ τῆς ἀκολουθίας τοῦ λόγου ἀσθενὴς ἐν τοῖς πϑείοσιν; ᾿Αλλ᾽ ἐρεῖς, ὅτι τούτῳ μὲν τοῦτο βούλεται τῷ δὲ ἑτέρῳ τὸ ἴσον οὐ βούλεται· δύναται καὶ ἐπ᾽ ἀμφοῖν ὅπερ βούλεται· πάντως οὖν καὶ τὴν αἰτίαν προσθήσεις τῆς τῶν προαιρέσεων τούτων διαφορᾶς. ΓΑνθρωπος οὗτος καὶ οὗτος, οὐδεμίαν κατὰ τὴν φύσιν παραλλαγὴν ἐπ᾽ ἀμφοτέρων βλέπεις, οὔτε τούτῳ τὸ καλὸν, ἣ φαῦλον ἔκ προαιρέσεως, οὔτε τῷ ἄλλῳ, ἀλλ᾽ οὗτος μικρόν τι τοῦ χρόνου προλαθὼν, τῆς μητρῴας νηδύος ἐξέθορεν, οὕτω κατὰ τὸ συμδὰν αὐτὲν ἀποσχευασαμένης τῆς φύσεως· ἐκεῖνος δὲ μετὰ τοῦτον, ἣ εὐθὺς ἣ μετ᾽ ὀλίγον. Καὶ μετὰ τοῦτο οὐκ ὁ αὐτὸς ἀμφοτέροις βίος ἀπαχληροῦται, ἀλλ᾽ ὁ μὲν, εὐδαίμων, ἣ βασιλεὺς, ἂν οὕτω τύχῃ, χρυσῷ καὶ πορφυρίδι παρὰ τὴν πρώτην γένεσιν ἐνειλούμενος· δὲ, τινὸς τῶν πενιχρῶν ἦ δούλων, οὐδὲ ῥαχίοις παρὰ τῶν γεννησαμένων αὐτὸν σπαργανούμενος. Τʼ οὖν κρὺν, οὐ κατ᾽ οἰκείαν πρόθεσιν, ἀλλὰ κατὰ τὴν τῆς φύσεως κίνησιν, ὡς αὐτοῦ τούτου ἕνεκεν ἀποχληρωὄτνα: τοῦ βίου τὴν ἀτιμίαν; ποίαν τῆς δεσποίνης ὑμῶν ἐκείνης ἐπὶ τοῖς αοὐτοῖς ἀπολογίαν εὑρήσετε : Ποῦ τὸ δίκαιον ; Ποῦ τὸ εὐσεδές ; Ποῦ τὸ ὅσιον: Ἢ τούτων οὐδενὸς μέλειν φὴς τῇ εἱμαρμένῃ, οὐδὲ πρὸς ἀρετὴν βλέπειν, οὐδέ τινος τῶν ἀγαθῶν ἐπιμέλειαν ἔχειν; Οὐκοῦν εἰ μὴ ταῦτα διὰ σπουδῆς ἐστιν αὐτῇ, περὶ τὸ ἐναντίον πάντως ἀσχοληθήσεται· ἡ γὰρ τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ ἀλλοτρίωσις, τὴν πρὸς τὸ κακὸν οἰχειόζηταᾳ σαφῶς ἐπιδείκνυσιν. ᾿Αλλ᾽ οὔτε τοῦτο τυχὸν, οὐδὲ ἐκεῖνο διὰ φροντίδος εἶναι λέγεις αὐτῇ ; Οὐκοῦν ἄἅψυ χον αὐτὸ φὴς εἶναι καὶ ἀπροαίρετον, καὶ καλοῦ καὶ χείρονος ἀνεπαίσθητον· εἰ δὲ μήτε ψυχὴν μήτε προαίρεσιν ἔχει, μῆτε κατ᾽ ἰδίαν θεωρεῖται ὑπόστασιν· πῶς τοσαύτην μαρτυρεῖται παρ᾽ ὑμῖν ἔχειν τὴν δύναμιν, ὥστε τῶν προαιρετικῶν ζώων ἐπιστατεῖν, καὶ κρατεῖν τῶν ὑφεστώτων τὸ ἀνυπόστατον, τῶν μετεχόντων ζωῆς τὸ ἀμέτοχον, τῶν ἐμψύχων τὸ ἄψυχον, τῶν ἐν προαιρέσει συζώντων τὸ ἀπροαίρετον, τῶν ἀρετὴν μετιόντων τὸ ἀρετῆς ἀπαράδεκτον καθόλου τῶν ὄντων τὸ μὴ ὄν; Ἔν τίνι γὰρ καταλα θάνεται τοῦ θρυλλουμένου τούτου ὀνόματος ἡ ὑπόστασις; Ζῶον οὐκ ἔστιν, ἐν περιγραφῇ οὐκ ὁρᾶται, Θεὸς οὐ νομίζεται. Πῶς γὰρ Θεὸς, ὁ μὴ πρὸς ἀρετὴν καὶ τὸ δίκαιον βλέπων ; Ὃ δὲ μηδέν ἐστι τούτων, τἱ ἔστιν; ᾿Αλλ᾽ ἔοικε παρ᾽ ὑμῶν τὸ ἀεὶ ἐνεστὼς τοῦ χρόνου, εἱμαρμένη λέγεσθαι· πάσῃ γὰρ κινήσει εἴτε ποταμῶν, εἴτε ἀστέρων, εἴτε ἀνθρώπων, ὁ χρόνος συμπαρεχτείνεται. Διαφέρει δὲ οὐδὲν, ἣ ὕδατι προαχαθήμενον τῇ κχινήσει τοῦ ῥεύματος σθαι τὰ ἀχαρῇ διὰ τοῦ ἀεὶ ἐνεστῶτος χρόνου τμή( μᾶτα, ἣ νεὼς δι᾽ ἀνέμου χομιζομένης, ἣ ἀνθρώπων ὁδοιπορούντων, ἣ κινουμένων ἄστρων. Εἷς γὰρ ἐπὶ πάντων τῶν μεταδατιχῶς κινουμένων ὄρος κινήσεως, ἣ ἀπὸ τοῦ ἐν ᾧ ἐστιν, ἢ ἐπὶ τὸ ἐν ᾧ οὐκ ἔστι, μετάστασις. Εἰ δὲ οὔτε ἡ τῶν ῥείθρων φορὰ, οὔτε ἡ τῶν. ### English translation (Claude) So life will have no inequality, all alike showing in themselves the highest measure of happiness, because by your argument all lie under fate, and you say that it is always able to do all things. If, then, this fate can do all things and always, it will be able to do all things in all. Yet the differences of life among men are many and varied, in ranks and possessions, in measures of time, in the constitutions of bodies, and in everything by which someone is called blessed or wretched. So the inequality of the effects clearly shows that that portion or fate fashioned by your argument cannot do all things. For if we think long life a work of power, a short life is surely a work of weakness. So one must teach that one of the fates is weak and another powerful. For since a short life is the opposite of a long one, each of these surely subsists through opposites. For no one would connect blessedness and wretchedness with the same cause; but if the one were achieved through power, the other would not have come about [except] surely through the lack of power. For [no one wishes not] to become blessed. Yet the wretched in life are more numerous. So the weakness of fate is shown to be greater than its power. Where, then, is that irresistible, all-powerful, and inviolable necessity, so that the authority over all that is arranged in life is placed in it, when it has been convicted by the sequence of the argument of being weak in more cases? But you will say that it wills this for this man, and does not will the same for the other, though it can do what it wills in both. Then you will surely add the cause of this difference of its choices. This one and that one are men; you see no variation of nature in the two; neither has this one [done] good or evil by choice, nor the other; but this one, a little ahead in time, leapt from his mother's womb, nature having so delivered him as it happened; and that one after him, either at once or a little later. And after this not the same life is allotted to both: the one is happy, or a king, it may be, wrapped in gold and purple at his very birth; the other [is the son] of one of the poor or of slaves, not even swaddled in rags by those who begot him. What, then, is [the cause] that, not by his own purpose but by the movement of nature, the dishonour of life is allotted to him as though for this very reason? What defence of your [mistress] will you find for these things? Where is justice? Where is piety? Where is holiness? Or do you say that fate cares for none of these, nor looks to virtue, nor takes care of any of the goods? Then, if these are not its concern, it will surely busy itself with the opposite; for estrangement from the good clearly shows kinship with evil. But do you say that perhaps neither this nor that is its care? Then you say it is lifeless and without choice, insensible of better and worse. And if it has neither soul nor choice, and is not seen in a subsistence of its own, how is it testified by you to have such power as to preside over living creatures that have choice, and that what has no subsistence rules over things that subsist, what has no share in life over those who share in life, what is lifeless over the living, what is without choice over those who live by choice, what cannot receive virtue over those who pursue virtue, in short, what is not over the things that are? In what is the subsistence of this much-babbled name grasped? It is not a living being; it is not seen in an outline; it is not thought to be God. For how could that be God which does not look to virtue and justice? And what is none of these, what is it? But it seems that by you the ever-present instant of time is called fate. For time is extended along with every motion, whether of rivers, or of stars, or of men. And it makes no difference whether the instantaneous sections of time [are counted] through the ever-present time by one who sits by water [watching] the motion of the stream, or by a ship carried by the wind, or by men journeying, or by stars moving. For the definition of motion in all things that move by passing from place to place is one: change from where it is to where it is not. If, then, neither the course of streams, nor the motion of ### Translation notes - Re-read against the Greek. "Your mistress" (δέσποινα) is Gregory's ironic name for fate. Latin leaks are removed by logged corrections; lost words are supplied in brackets. ### Citation (SBL) Gregory of Nyssa, Fat. 5 (PG 45; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/gregory-nyssa-fatum/5). ## Against Fate, part 6 - URL: https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/gregory-nyssa-fatum/1/#p-6 - Source: PG 45 - Translation: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), 2026-09-27 Summary: If the motion of rivers, ships, or travellers makes no fates, neither does that of the stars; Gregory mocks the astrologers' signs (the servile Bull, the beneficent Ram) and argues that if the stars' properties are themselves fated, an infinite regress of fates follows. ### Greek text πλοίων κίνησις, οὔτε ἡ τῶν ἀνθρώπων παρεία μειουμένη τοῦ χρόνου τὰ διαστήματα εἱμαρμένας ποιεῖ, πῶς τὰ χρονικὰ σημεῖα τῆς τῶν ἀστέρων κινήσεως εἰς εἱμαρμένης γένεσιν πλάσσετε, καί φατε τήνδε τὴν ὥραν, ἣ τῆς ὥρας τὸ πολλοστημόριον ὅπερ τῷδε τῷ σημείῳ τῆς τῶν ἄστρων κινήσεως ἐσημειώθη, εἱμαρμένην γίνεσθαι ; Τί οὖν οὐχὶ πάντως παντὶ σημείῳ καὶ αἱ γενέσεις τῶν ἀνθρώπων συμφέρονται ; Πάλιν γὰρ τὸν αὐτὸν ἐπαναλήψομαι λόγον. Παρ᾽ ὧν γὰρ ἡ αἰτία τοῦ εὖ ἣ κακῶς εἶναι τὸν ἄνθρωπον, παρὰ τῶν αὐτῶν γχαὶ ἡ τοῦ εἶναι πάντως αἱτία ἐστίν· εἰ οὖν τὸ μετὰ τὴν γένεσιν παρ᾽ ἐχείγων, πάντως παρὰ τῶν αὐτῶν καὶ ἡ γένεσις· τοῦτο οὐκ ἐν ἐκείνοις, πάντως οὐδὲ τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο. ᾿Αλλὰ μὴν τὸ μὴ ἐν ἐκείνοις εἶναι τὴν γένεσιν, ἐκ τούτου δῆλόν ἐστιν· ἐκ τοῦ μὴ ἀδιαλείπτως, ποταμοῦ δίκην, τῷ συνεχεῖ τῆς παροδιχῆς τοῦ χρόνου ῥοῆς, καὶ τὰς ἀνθρωπίνας συῤῥέειν τῶν τικτομένων γενέσεις, ἀλλ᾽ ἐν διαλείμμασι μὲν εἶναι τοὺς τόκους· τῆς δὲ τῶν μοιρῶν ἐκείνων γενέσεως, ἃς ὁ χρόνος ῥέων τῷ ἀεικινήτῳ τῆς τῶν ἄστρων φορᾶς ἐξεργάζξεται· οὐδ᾽ ὁτιοῦν ἔστι διάλειμμα οὔτε κατ᾽ αἴσθησιν, οὔτε τῇ διανοίᾳ λαθεῖν. Τίς οὖν ἐκείνη εἱμαρμένη, εἴτ᾽ οὖν μία γενικωτέρα, εἴτ᾽ οὖν πολλαὶ αἱ ἐπὶ τοῖς ποῦ χρόνου τμήμασι συλλεπτυγόμεναι, οὕπω χαταλαδεῖν δι᾽ ἀκολούθου τινὸς ὁ λόγος δεδύνηται. Κινεῖσθαι τὰ ἄστρα φατέ; Καὶ γὰρ καὶ ἡμεῖς τὴν τῶν ποταμῶν ἀντιπροφέρομεν κχίνησιν. ᾿Αλλὰ διὰ παντὸς ἐκεῖνα. Καὶ ταῦτα ὡσαύτως δι’ ὅλου. ᾿Αλλ᾽ ἐκεῖνα ἐν χρόνῳ; Οὐδὲ ταῦτα ἕξω τοῦ χρόνου. ᾿Αλλὰ χρονικὴν οὐκ ἔστιν ἐπ᾽ ἐκείνων ἀρχὴν ἐξευρεῖν τῆς κινήσεως ; Ποίαν δὲ τούτοις ἐπινοήσεις τὴν ἀπὸ χρόνων ἀρχήν; ᾿Αλλ᾽ ἐκεῖνα κατὰ τὰ αὐτὰ καὶ ὡσαύτος ἀεὶ κινεῖται; Οὐδὲ τούτοις ἄν τις τὴν ἐναντίαν προσμαρτυρήσειε κίνησιν, φυσικῶς ἀεὶ τοῦ ὕδατος ἀπὸ τοῦ ὑπερχειμένου πρὸς τὸ πρανὲς χαταῤῥέοντος. Ὥστε ἣ καὶ τὴν κίνησιν τῶν ποταμῶν εΐμαρμένας τινὰς ἀπογεννᾷν συγχωρήσατε, ἣ οὐδὲ ἡμεῖς τῇ τῶν ἄστρων χινήσεε τῆς δυνάμεως ταύτης παραχωρήσομεν. ᾿Αλλὰ τῆσδε, φησὶ, τῆς δυνάμεως, ὁ Κριὸς ἣ ὁ Ταῦρος, καὶ τῆσδε τῶν πλανητῶν ἕχαστος.·Ὅταν οὖν ἐν ἑνὶ τούτων γέγηται, ἢ κατὰ μόνας ἣ μεθ᾽ ἑτέρων περιοδιχῶς τις τῶν πλανητῶν ὑπὸ τοῦ κύκλου περιαγόμενος, ἡ τῆς δυνάμεως σύνοδός τό)δε τὸν βίον τῷ συνενεχθέντι ὥρᾳ ταύτῃ κατὰ τὴν γένεσιν ἀπειργάσατο. Ὦ τῆς ματαιολογίας δούλειον ἂν οὕτως τύχῃ τὸν Ταῦρον λέγετε, διὰ τὸ ὑπὸ ζυγῷ τὸ ζῶον τοῦτο δαμάζεσθαι· καὶ εὐεργετικὸν τὸν Κριὸν, διὰ τὴν τῶν ἐρίφων φοράν· ἕν ἑνὶ δὲ τούτων γενόμενον, ἣ τόνδε τῶν κατὰ τὸ᾽ ἐναντίον ἀνειλουμένων, κατὰ τὴν φυσικῶς ἐνυπάρχουάαν αὐτῷ δύναμιν διὰ τῆς τῶν ἰδιωμάτων ἐπιμιξίας, τοιάνδε τῶν τικτομένων μοῖραν χατασχενάζειν. Τί οὖν; εἰπέ μοι, ἑχὼν ὁ ταῦρός ἐστιν ὑποζύγιος ; καὶ καταθύμιον τῷ κριῷ τὸ κείρεσθαι λέγεις ; Τότε βλαπτικὸν᾽ καὶ ναρχῶδες τῷ τὸν ἀνωτάτω περιοδεύοντι πόλον, ἥ τὸ θερμὸν τῷ πυρόεντι, ἣ ἄλλῳ τινὶ ς τῶν θεωρουμένων, ἡ ἐνυπάρχουσα δύναμις ἐκουσίως, ἢ κατὰ τὸ ἀκούσιον πρόσεστιν ; Ἐξ μὲν ὅτι ἐχόντες ἐν κακοῖς εἰσι, καὶ βλαπτιχοὶ ἐκ προαιρέσεως γίνονται, δυστυχίαν ἄντικρυς αὐτῶν ὁ ταῦτα λέγων καταψηφίζετάι, τῷ κατ᾽ ἐξουσίαν αὐτοῖς προκειμένης τῆς κρείττονος λήξεως, ἐν ἡδονῇ τὸ ἀτιμότερον τίθεσθαι· εἰ δὲ οὐκ ἐκ προαιρέσεως τούτων ἕκαστόν ἐστιν ὅπερ νομίζετε, ἀλλ᾽ ἔκ τινος ἀνάγκης ἐγένετο, ἄρα τις καὶ τούτοις ὑπερκειμένη πάλιν αὐτῶν εἱμαρμένη ἑτέρα, τὰς τῶν φύσεών τε καὶ δυνάμεων ἑπέχλωσεν ἰδιότη κας. Ὥστε ζητεῖν ἐπάναγκες ἄλλα ἄστρα τούτων ὑπέρτερα, καὶ κίνησιν ἐφ᾽ ἑαυτῶν ἰδιάζουσαν, ὧν ἡ ποιὰ συμπλοκὴ κατά τινα εἱμαρμένης ἀνάγκην, ἣ δούλειον εἶναι τὸν ταῦρον, ἣ ἐπιζήμιον τὸν κριὸν ἀπειργάσατο, ἣ τὸν χαρχῖνον ἀχέφαλον, ἣ εἴ τι ἄλλο περὶ ἐκάστου τούτων οἱ λῆροι τῶν σοφῶν διέρχονται, Καὶ εἰ ταῦτα τὰ φαινόμενα ἡμῖν κατ᾽ ἀνάγκην τινὸς εἱμαρμένης ἐστὶ τοιαῦτα, πάντως καὶ τῆς ὕπερχει μένης ἐκείνης ἀνάγκης ἑτέραν αἰτίαν ἀναγκαστικὴν τῆς τοιαύτης καταστάσεως προσεπινοῆσει ὁ λόγος, κἀκείνης ἄλλην, καὶ πάλιν ἄλλην τῆς ἄλλης, καὶ οὕτως εἰς ἄπειρον προϊὼν ὁ λόγος, οὐδαμοῦ στήσεται εἱμαρμένην εἱμαρμένης, καὶ μοῖραν μοίρας, καὶ ἀνάγκης ἀνάγκην προσαναπλάσσων. ### English translation (Claude) ships, nor the journeying of men, measuring out the intervals of time, makes fates, how do you fashion the time-points of the movement of the stars into the coming-to-be of fate, and say that this hour, or the smallest part of the hour that was marked at this point of the movement of the stars, becomes fate? Why, then, do births of men not happen at every point? For I shall take up the same argument again. Those from whom comes the cause of a man's being well or ill are surely the same from whom comes the cause of his being. If, then, what follows birth is from them, birth too is surely from the same; [if] this is not in them, neither is what follows it. And that birth is not in them is plain from this: that the births of human beings do not flow on without interruption, like a river, in the continuity of the passing stream of time, but births come at intervals; while of the coming-to-be of those portions which flowing time works through the ever-moving course of the stars there is no interval whatever, either to sense or to thought. What, then, that fate is, whether one more general or the many that are gathered up in the sections of time, the argument has not yet been able to grasp by any consistent sequence. Do you say that the stars move [in a circle]? We too bring forward in reply the motion of the rivers. But those move continually? These too likewise throughout. But those in time? Nor are these outside time. But no beginning in time can be found for the motion of those? What beginning from time will you devise for these? But those always move in the same way and likewise? Nor would anyone testify the opposite motion to these, the water always flowing by nature from the higher to the slope. So either grant that the motion of rivers too begets certain fates, or we shall not concede this power to the motion of the stars either. "But," he says, "the Ram or the Bull is of this power, and each of the planets of that. So when one of the planets, carried round periodically by the circle, comes to be in one of these, either alone or with others, the meeting of the power brings about this life for the one who met that hour at birth." O vain talk! You call the Bull, say, servile, because this animal is tamed under the yoke; and the Ram beneficent, because of the bearing of lambs; and you say that one [planet] coming into one of these, or into this one of those rolled up opposite, prepares such a portion for those being born, according to the power naturally present in it, through the mixing of the properties. What then? Tell me, is the bull a beast of burden willingly? And do you say the ram likes being shorn? Is the harmful and numbing [property] in the one that goes round the highest sphere, or the heat in the fiery one, or the power present in any other of those observed, present willingly or unwillingly? If they are in evils willingly and become harmful by choice, the one who says this condemns them outright to misfortune, in that, though the better lot lies before them in their power, they place the more dishonourable in pleasure. But if each of these is not by choice what you think, but has come to be from some necessity, then some other fate again lying above them has spun the properties of their natures and powers. So one must of necessity seek other stars higher than these, and a motion peculiar to themselves, whose particular interweaving, by some necessity of fate, has made the bull servile or the ram harmful, or the crab headless, or whatever else the nonsense of the wise relates about each of these. And if these things that appear to us are such by the necessity of some fate, the argument will surely devise another compelling cause of such a state for that higher necessity too, and another for that, and again another for the other; and so the argument, going on to infinity, will nowhere stop, fashioning fate on fate, portion on portion, and necessity on necessity. ### Translation notes - Re-read against the Greek. The planet "that goes round the highest sphere" is Saturn (cold, numbing), "the fiery one" Mars; Gregory does not name them. "The crab headless" refers to the constellation's figure. Latin leaks are removed by logged corrections. ### Citation (SBL) Gregory of Nyssa, Fat. 6 (PG 45; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/gregory-nyssa-fatum/6). ## Against Fate, part 7 - URL: https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/gregory-nyssa-fatum/7/#p-7 - Source: PG 45 - Translation: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), 2026-09-27 Summary: The philosopher appeals to the success of horoscopes; Gregory replies that predictions of lifespan from bodily constitution are the physicians' conjectures, not fate, and that medicine can reverse them, as with Herodicus in Plato, and that a prediction of what may go either way is no proof of necessity. ### Greek text Ταῦτα δὲ μου διεξιόντος, καὶ διὰ τῶν τοιούτων νοημάτων πρὸς τὸ ἄτοπον τὸν λόγον ἐχδάλλοντος, ἐπιχόψας μεταξὺ διὰ καταφορᾶς προϊόντα τὸν λόγον ὁ προσδιαλεγόμενός μοι φιλόσοφος, Τί μάχῃ, φησὶ, τῇ ἐνεργείᾳ ; τί δὲ οὐκ ἕπῃ τοῖς διὰ τῶν ἀριθμῶν παρατετηρηχόσ: τὴν τῶν ὅλων ἀλήθειαν, οἷς εἰ πρὸς ἀχρίδειαν ἡ ὥρα ληφθείη τῆς τοῦ ἀποχυηθέντος γενγήσεως, πᾶσαν δι᾽ ἀκολούθου τὴν ζωὴν τοῦ τεχθέντος προαγορεύουσι· τὸν χρόνον, τὸν τρόπον, τὰ τῶν ἡθῶν ἰδιώματα, τὰς κινδυνώδεις περιστάσεις, γάμους καὶ παιδοποιίας καὶ ἀξιωμάτων ἐπιτυχίας, ἣ καὶ τὸ ἕμπαλιν, ἀπαιδίας καὶ νόσους, καὶ ἀτιμίας, καὶ βραχύτητα βίου, καὶ τὰ ἐκ πενίας κακά ; Τούτων οὖν δι᾽ καὶ τῇ ἐχδάσει τῆς ἀληθείας μαρτυρηθείσης· τίς ἔτι σοι λόγος ἐστὶν ἀπιστοῦντι τῇ τῆς εἱμαρμένης ἀνάγκῃ ; Ἐγὼ δὲ τῶν τοιούτων προῤῥήδεων τὰς αἰτίας μικρὸν ὕστερον εἰποὼν ζητήσειν, ἠρόμην· πότερον ἄλογός ἐστι καὶ συντυχιχὴ τῶν τοιούτων ἐχῥάσεων ἡ αἰτία, ἢ τινα καὶ λόγον τῇ παρατηρήσει ταύτῃ συνεφευρίσχουσιν, ὡς μὴ ἔξω τοῦ εἰκότος γενέσθας τὸ γινόμενον. Καὶ μάλα μέν τοι, φησὶ, καὶ λόγος ἔπεστι τοῖς γινομένοις. Ὅταν γὰρ ἂκ τῆς ποιᾶς τῶν κατὰ τὰ ἄστρα ποιοτήτων συμπτώσεως τοιάδε κρᾶσις σώματος τῷ τιχτομένῳ συστῇ, ὁ κατειληφὼς δι᾽ ἀχριδείας τῶν οὐρανίων τὴν θεωρίαν, καὶ τὸ συστήσεσθαι τήνδε τὴν κρᾶσιν περὶ τὸν τεχθέντα προχατενόησε, καὶ τὸ δύνασθαι μέχρι τοῦδε τοῦ μέτρον τὴν ζωὴν ἐξαρχέσαι πλείονος μὲν, ἐπὶ τῆς ἐῤῥωμενεστέρας, ἐλάττονος δὲ πάλιν, ἐπὶ τῆς νοσωδεστέρας τοῦ σώματος κράσεως. Ἐγὼ δὲ τοῖς ῥηθεῖσιν ἐπιγελάσας, ᾿Ἐλελήθεις ἡμᾶς, πρὸς αὐτὸν εἴπον, Γαληνοῦ καὶ Ἱπποκράτους καὶ τῶν τοιούτων ἐγγόνους εἶναι τὰς εἱμαρμένας δοξάζων. Ἐπεὶ κἀκεῖνοι χαίρειν ἀφέντες τὴν τῶν ἄστρων κχίνῆσιν, ἐκ τοῦ ὑποκει μένου στοχαστικῶς τὸ μέλλον προαγορεύουσιν.·Ὅταν ὀφθαλμοὶ κοῖλοι καὶ χρόταφοι δέρματι, τὸν θάνατον προμηνύωσι. Πολλοῖς δὲ, εἶπον, νοσωδέστερον διακειμένοι; τὰ σώματα, καὶ ὅσον οὐδέπω προσδοκωμένοις τεθνήξεσθαι, πρὸς τὸ ἔμπαλιν ἐξ ἰατρικῆς ἀνεχλώσθη τῆ; τοιαύτης εἱμαρμένης τὰ νήματα· οἷον δὴ καὶ τὸν παιδοτρίδην Ἡρώδικον Πλάτωνος ἱστόρησε λόγος, ὅτι διὰ γυμναστικῆς ἐμπειρίας, εἰς παντελῇ μὲν ὑγείαν, ἐπιθανατίου τοῦ νοσήματος ὄντος, ἐπαναγαγεῖν τὸ σῶμα οὐκ οἷός τε ἦν᾽ ἀεὶ δὲ τὸν θάνατον παρόντα ὃ: ἐπινοίας ὑπεῤτιο θέμενος, οὐχὶ ζωῆς ἀσφάλειαν, ἀλλὰ θανάτου παράτασιν ἑαυτῷ παρεσκεύαζεν. Ὅθεν καὶ εἰς γῆρας διήρκεσε, μακρῷ θανάτῳ τὸ μὴ ἀποθανεῖν σοφισάμενος. Οὐκοῦν οὐδὲ κατὰ τοῦτον τὸν λόγον ἀῤῥαγὴς ὑμῖν ἢ εἱμαρμένη χαταλαμδάνεται, εἴπερ εὑρίσκεταί τις πέχνη τὴν ἀνάγκην ἐχλύουσα. ᾿Αλλ᾽ οὐδὲν, φησὶν, ὁ τοιοῦτος λόγος τὴν ἐκ τῶν προῤῥήσεων περὶ τῆς εἷμαρμένης ἀπόδειξιν ἀναλύει. Δυνατὸν γὰρ ἂν γένοιτο καὶ τοῦτο προμηνυθῆναι παρὰ τοῦ δι᾽ ἀχριδείας εἐσχεμμένου τῶν οὐρανίων τὴν κίνησιν· ὥστε τῷ μὲν ἀραρότως, τῷ δὲ ἀμφίθδολον προμηνυθῆναι τὸν θάνατον. Ἐγὼ δὲ, Οὐκ ὕτως, εἶπον, ὁ τῆς ἀνάγκης διισχυρίζεται λόγος· ἄλλης γὰρ τοῦ ἐνδεχομένου ὁπότερον ἂν τύχῃ γενέσθαι, καὶ ἄλλος τοῦ ἀμεταθέτου ὁ λόγος, ὃν οὖκ ἔστιν ἐπὶ τῶν ἐνδεχομένων λαδεῖν· ἀλλ᾽ ἣ τοῦτο πάντως, ἢ τὸ ἕτερον· τὸ δὲ πρὸς ἀμφοτέρας τὰς ἐχδάσεις ταῖς ἐλπίσιν ἐπικραδαίνεσθαι, πόῤῥω τῶν τῆς ἀνάγκης λόγων ἐστί· πλὴν τοῦτό φημι πρὸς αὐτὸν, Πόθεν οἴεται τὸ πιστὸν ἔχειν τῶν ἀποδησομένων τὴν πρόῤῥησιν; Ὁ δὲ, Πολλάκις, φησὶ, διἐξιόντος ἀκούσας, ἔτι καὶ νῦν περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν ἐρωτᾷς, ὅτι τινές εἰσιν ἰδιάζουσαι δυνάμεις τῶν ἄστρων· ἀειχένητον τῆς φορᾶς, μυρίας ἐκ τῆς ποιᾶς αὐτῶν συμπλοκῆς, τὰς τῶν δυνάμεων διαφορὰς ἐργάζεται ; ### English translation (Claude) As I was going through these things and driving the argument by such thoughts to absurdity, the philosopher who was talking with me cut short the argument as it was going on with a rush, and said: "Why do you fight against the evidence? Why do you not follow those who have observed the truth of the universe through numbers? If the hour of the birth of the one brought forth is taken exactly, they foretell in sequence the whole life of the one born: the time, the manner, the peculiarities of character, the dangerous circumstances, marriages and the begetting of children and the gaining of ranks, or again the opposite, childlessness and diseases and dishonours and shortness of life and the evils of poverty. Since the truth of these has been testified [by experience] and by the outcome, what argument do you still have for disbelieving the necessity of fate?" I said I would inquire into the causes of such predictions a little later, and asked whether the cause of such outcomes is irrational and a matter of chance, or whether they find some reason too along with this observation, so that what happens does not happen beyond what is likely. "Very much so," he says; "there is reason in what happens. For when from the particular coincidence of the qualities in the stars such a constitution of body is formed in the one born, the one who has grasped exactly the contemplation of the heavenly things has foreseen both that this constitution would be formed in the child and that life could last to this measure, longer for the more robust constitution of body, and shorter again for the more sickly." I laughed at what was said and told him: "You had escaped our notice, holding the fates to be the offspring of Galen and Hippocrates and the like. For they too, letting the motion of the stars go, foretell the future by conjecture from the subject: when the eyes are hollow and the temples [shrunk to the] skin, they foretell death. But for many," I said, "who were in a sickly state of body and were expected to die at any moment, the threads of such a fate have been spun back the other way by medicine; as Plato's account relates of the trainer Herodicus, that through his experience of gymnastics he was not able to restore his body to complete health, since his disease was mortal; but, always postponing by his devices the death that was at hand, he provided for himself not security of life but a prolonging of death. So he lasted even into old age, having contrived by a long death not to die. So by this argument too fate is not grasped by you as unbreakable, if some art is found that loosens the necessity." "But," he says, "such an argument does nothing to undo the proof about fate from the predictions. For this too could be foretold by one who has examined the motion of the heavenly bodies exactly: so that to one death is foretold as certain, to another as doubtful." I said: "That is not how the argument of necessity maintains it. For the account of what may happen either way is one thing, and the account of the unchangeable another, which cannot be taken in matters that may happen either way; but either this certainly, or the other. To waver in one's hopes between both outcomes is far from the arguments of necessity." But I said this to him: "From where does he think the prediction of what will come about gets its credibility?" And he said: "Though you have often heard me go through it, you still ask about the same things now: that there are certain particular powers of the stars; and [does not] the ever-moving character of their course, through their particular interweaving, work countless differences of powers?" ### Extrabiblical texts - Plato, Resp. 406a–b (Plato (works)): allusion, high confidence - Hippocrates, Prog. 2 (Hippocrates, Hippocratic Corpus): allusion, medium confidence - Galen (Galen (works)): echo, low confidence ### Translation notes - Re-read against the Greek. Herodicus the trainer, who by his regimen "prolonged his death" into old age, is from Plato, Republic 406a–b. Galen and Hippocrates are named as physicians who predict from symptoms (the hollow eyes and shrunken temples are the Hippocratic facies, Prognostic 2). Latin leaks are removed by logged corrections. ### Citation (SBL) Gregory of Nyssa, Fat. 7 (PG 45; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/gregory-nyssa-fatum/7). ## Against Fate, part 8 - URL: https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/gregory-nyssa-fatum/7/#p-8 - Source: PG 45 - Translation: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), 2026-09-27 Summary: Mass disasters, biblical (the flood, Sodom, the Red Sea, the Assyrians) and recent (the destruction of Nicomedia and of Thrace), kill people of every age and rank together, which refutes fate by birth; and fate cannot be assigned to a ship, whose building happens in many stages at different times. ### Greek text Ὁ τοίνυν παραχθεὶς ἐπὶ τὸν βίον διὰ γενέσεως, κατὰ τὴν συμπεσοῦσαν αὐτῷ τοῦ χρόνου μοῖραν, τὴν ὑπὸ ἄπορ ἂν ἡ δύναμις τῆς ὥρας ἐκείνης ἔχουσα καταληφθῇ, ταῦτα καὶ περὶ τὸν βίον κατ᾽ ἀνάγκην ἕξει, καὶ ἄλλως οὐκ ἔχει. Τί οὖν, εἶπον, αἱ κατὰ πόλεμον συμφοραὶ, καὶ οἱ σεισμοὶ, καὶ τῶν πόλεων αἱ χαταπτώσεις, καὶ τὰ αὔτανδρα τῶν μυριοφόρων ὀλχάδων ναυάγια, ἐπικλύσεις, καὶ ἐκπυρώσεις, καὶ χάσματα, καὶ ὅσα τοιαῦτα πανωλεθρίας εἴδη ; Πῶς ταῦτα διασώσει τὸν τῆς προῤῥήσεως λόγον ; Πόσα ἐν τοῖς προτέροις, πόσα δὲ καὶ ἐν τοῖς καθ᾽ ἡμᾶς χρόνοις ὁ βίος ἔδειξε πάθη; τὸν ἐπὶ Νῶε κατακλυσμὸν, καὶ τὴν Σοδόμων ἐχεαύρωσιν ; ἣ τὸν Αἰγύπτιον στρατὸν ὑποὀρύχιον ἐν τῇ Ἐρυθρᾷ θαλάσσῃ γενόμενον ; ἣ τὰς μετὰ ταῦτα τῶν ἀλλοφύλων σφαγὰς, τὰς μυρίας ἐχείγας ἀνδροκτασίας ; ἢ τὸν αὐτόματον ἐν ὀλίγῳ τῷ χρόνῳ θάνατον τοῦ Ἰσραηλίτου λαοῦ ἐν πολλαῖς μυ; ἣ τὰς ἑκατὸν ὀγδοήκοντα πέντε χιλιάδας τῶν ᾿Ασσυρίων, μιᾷ χρόνου ῥοπῇ νεχρωθείσας, τῶν τε ἐφεξῆς κακῶν τὰς ἱστορίας, ἐν Μηδιχαῖς τε καὶ ʼ᾿Ἑλληνικαῖς συμφοραῖς συμπεσούσας, ἐν ναυμαχίαις τε καὶ πεζομαχίαις μεγάλαις, καὶ πάντα ὅσα τοιαῦτα, ὧν ἡ μνήμη τοῖς ἐφεξῆς διδάσκαλος γίνεται; Κἂν ταῦτα παρέλθωμεν πάντα, ἱκανὰ γένοιτο πρὸς τὴν τῶν λεγομένων μαρτυρίαν, καὶ ὅσα ὁ καθ᾽ ἡμᾶς ἱστόρησε βίος. Τίς γὰρ οὐκ οἷδε τὴν μεγάλην τῆς Βιθυνίας μητρόπολιν ταῖς ἐξεχούσαις τῶν πόλεων ἐναρίθμιον; τίς ἀγνοεῖ τὴν πλατεῖαν καὶ εὐρύχωρον θΘράχην, πῶς τὴν μὲν ὁ πόλεμος, τὴν δὲ σεισμὸς μετὰ τοῦ πυρὸς ἐν ἀκαρεῖ τοῦ χρόνου ἄρδην ἐξέτριψε ; Πόσοι παῖδες ἐχεῖ, πόσα νήπια; οἱ μέσως ἔχοντες, παρήλιχες, ἐλεύθεροέ τε καὶ δοῦλοι, κρατοῦντες καὶ ὑποχείριοι, πλούσιοι, πένητες, ἐῤῥωμένοι, νοσηλευόμενοι, πάντες ἐν μιᾷ καιροῦ ῥοπῇ χατεφθάρησαν. Πάντας ἐπίσης τὸ πῦρ ἐνεμήθη· πᾶσιν οἱ οἶκοι τάφοι ἐγένοντο. Ποῦ αἱ τῶν ἄστρων ἐχεένων διαπλοχαὶ, αἱ τὰς διαφορὰς τῶν βίων τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ὁρίζουσαι ; ἾΑρα πᾶσιν ἐκείνοις μία τῶν ἄστρων σύνοδος τὰς ὠδῖνας τῶν γενέσεων ἔλυσε, καὶ πᾶσιν ὁ Καρκῖνος ὡροσχοπῶν τὴν μοῖραν ἐπέθαλε: Καὶ μὴν αἱ μυρίαι τῶν ἡλικιῶν τε καὶ ἀξιωμάτων διαφοραὶ, τὸ μὴ πάντας ἀλλήλοις κατὰ ταυτὸν τῇ γενέσει συνενεχθῆναι διαμαρτύρονται. Εἰ οὖν ὁ μὲν τῆς γενέσεως χρόνος ἑκάστῳ διάφορος, ἡ δὲ τῶν συμφορῶν ταυτότης οὐδε μίαν παραλλαγὴν ἐκ τῆς κατὰ τὴν γένεσιν αἰτίας ἐδέξατο· ἄρα καὶ διὰ τούτων τὸ περὶ τὴν πρόῤῥησιν καὶ ἀσύστατον διελέγχεται. ᾿ἈΑλλ᾽ ἔστι, φησὶ, καὶ νεὼς, καὶ πόλεως, καὶ ἔθνους, παντὸς εἱμαρμένη, κατὰ τὴν πρώτην θέσιν τὸ ἐφεξῆς ἐπιχλώθουσα, καὶ τῷ περιέχοντι τὰ μένα κατ᾽ ἀνάγκην συνδιατίθεται. Τίς οὖν ἡ τῆς ναυπηγίας Εἰλήθυια; Τίς δὲ ὁ τῆς πόλεως τόκος ; Ἐκ ποίας δὲ ἀρχῆς τοῦ ἔθνους καθορῶμεν τὴν γένεσιν; Τέμνει ὁ δρυοτόμος τὴν ὕλην, ὀμπορεύεται ταύτὴν ὁ τὸ ξύλον ἐμπορενόμενος, χρημάτων ὁ γὸς ὕλην ὠνεῖται, μερίζει τῇ ἐργασίᾳ τὴν τέχνην. Ὁ μὲν γάρ τις διαιρεῖ τὸ ξύλον εἰς σανίδας τῷ πρίονι· ὁ δὲ, τὴν τρόπιν τεκταίνεται· ἕτερος, περὶ τὰ ὑποζώματα τὴν σπουδὴν τῆς κατασχενυῆς ἔχει, ἄλλος τὴν πρώραν, καὶ ἄλλος τὴν πρύμναν ἐχορυφώσατο. Τούτῳ τοῦ ἱστοῦ μέλει, καὶ τῆς κεραίας τῷ ἑτέρῳ· χυδερνήτῃ διὰ φροντίδος γίνονται· ἄλλοι τὰ καταστρώματα καὶ τὴν ὀθόνην ἐνεργοῦσιν· ἄλλοι, καὶ τὸν ἐκ τῆς ζωγραφίας καλλωπισμὸν ἐπάγουσιν. Ἕτεροί διαχρίοντες τῇ πίσσῃ τὰς ἁρμονίας, καὶ τὸν ἐν τῷ μέσῳ χκατασχευάζοντες. Πάντως οὐ κατὰ αὐτὸν ἕκαστος τὸ καθ᾽ ἑαυτὸν ἐνεργοῦσιν, ἀλλ᾽ ὁ μὲν, νῦν· οἱ δὲ, μετ᾽ ὀλίγον· καὶ τῷ μὲν ἤδη πέρας τὸ σπουδαζόμενον ἔσχεν ὁ δὲ, ἐν τῷ ἐνεργεῖν καθ- ορᾶται. Πότε τοίνυν τῇ νηὶ τὴν εἱμαρμένην οἱ σοφοὶ ἐπιστήσουσιν; Ὃτε ὠνεῖται τὸ ξύλον, ἣ ὅτε τέμνςται, ἣ ὅτε μεταχειρίζεται, ἣ ὅτε ἐπάγει τὸν σίδηρον, ἥ ὅτε συναρμόζει τοῖς γόμφοις; Πολλῶν γὰρ καὶ διαφόρων ὄντων τῶν κατὰ τὴν ναυπηγίαν σπουδαζομένων, καὶ οὐ κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν ἀλλήλοις χρόνον συνἱσταμένων, ποῖον ἀναθήσει χρόνον τῇ δἱμαρμένῃ, ἵνα τὴν ἀνάγκην τῆς καταδύσεως δεξαμένη, συνδιαφθεέρῃ. ### English translation (Claude) "So the one brought into life by birth, according to the portion of time that met him, [has in life] of necessity whatever the power of that hour is grasped as holding, and has it in no other way." "What, then," I said, "of the calamities in war, and earthquakes, and the falls of cities, and the shipwrecks, crew and all, of merchant ships carrying ten thousand measures, floods and conflagrations and chasms, and all such kinds of utter destruction? How will these save the account of prediction? How many disasters did life show in earlier times, and how many in our own? The flood in Noah's time, and the burning of Sodom? Or the Egyptian army sunk under the Red Sea? Or after these the slaughters of the foreigners, those countless killings of men? Or the death that came of itself in a short time on the Israelite people in many tens of thousands? Or the hundred and eighty-five thousand of the Assyrians, put to death in one moment of time, and the histories of the evils that followed, which befell in the Median and Greek calamities, in great sea battles and land battles, and all such things, whose memory becomes a teacher for those who come after? And even if we pass over all these, what our own life has recorded would be enough to testify to what is said. For who does not know the great metropolis of Bithynia, counted among the most eminent cities? Who is ignorant of broad and spacious Thrace, how war utterly destroyed the one, and earthquake with fire the other, in an instant of time? How many children were there, how many infants? Those of middle age, the old, free and slaves, rulers and subjects, rich, poor, healthy, sick: all were destroyed in one turn of time. The fire fed on all alike; for all, their houses became tombs. Where are those interweavings of the stars that define the differences of men's lives? Did one conjunction of the stars loose the birth pangs for all those, and did the Crab, rising at the hour, lay the portion on all? Yet the countless differences of age and rank testify that not all met birth at the same time as one another. If, then, the time of birth was different for each, while the sameness of the calamities admitted no variation from the cause in the birth, then by this too the doctrine of prediction is convicted of having no standing." "But," he says, "there is a fate also of a ship and of a city and of a nation and of everything, spinning what follows according to the first setting, and the things contained are of necessity disposed together with what contains them." "What, then, is the birth goddess of shipbuilding? What is the birth of a city? From what beginning do we see the coming-to-be of a nation? The woodcutter cuts the timber; the timber merchant trades in it; the [shipwright] buys the material with money, and divides the art by the work. One cuts the wood into planks with the saw; another builds the keel; another spends the effort of the construction on the bracing cables; another finishes off the prow, and another the stern. One cares for the mast, another for the yard; [the rudders] are the concern of the helmsman; others make the decking and the sail-cloth; others add the adornment of painting; others smear the joints with pitch and make the [hold] in the middle. Surely they do not each do their own work at the same time, but one now, others a little later; for one the work has already reached its end, while another is seen at work. When, then, will the wise set fate over the ship? When the wood is bought, or when it is cut, or when it is handled, or when the iron is put to it, or when it is fitted together with the bolts? Since the tasks in shipbuilding are many and different and do not come about at the same time as one another, what time will he assign to fate, so that, having received the necessity of sinking, it may destroy along ### Scripture references - Gen 7:17–23: allusion, high confidence - Gen 19:24–25: allusion, high confidence - Exod 14:28: allusion, high confidence - 2 Sam 24:15: allusion, medium confidence - 2 Kgs 19:35: allusion, high confidence ### Translation notes - Re-read against the Greek. "The great metropolis of Bithynia" is Nicomedia, destroyed by earthquake and fire in 358; the war in Thrace is probably the Gothic war of 376–378. Quotations and allusions: Gen 7; Gen 19:24–25; Exod 14:28; 2 Sam 24:15 (probably the plague, "death of itself in a short time"); 2 Kgs 19:35. Latin leaks are removed by logged corrections. ### Citation (SBL) Gregory of Nyssa, Fat. 8 (PG 45; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/gregory-nyssa-fatum/8). ## Against Fate, part 9 - URL: https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/gregory-nyssa-fatum/7/#p-9 - Source: PG 45 - Translation: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), 2026-09-27 Summary: Neither cities nor nations have a moment of birth to which fate could be tied, and conquerors like Hannibal, Caesar, and Alexander brought one fate on all; earthquakes strike uninhabited places as well, and since Moses says the earth was made with, indeed before, the stars, its local disasters have other causes than the stars. ### Greek text μεθ᾽ δαυτῆς τοὺς ἐμπλέοντας ; Τί δ᾽ ἂν εἴποις περὶ τῶν πόλεων ; Πότε αὐτῆς κρατεῖν τὴν εἱμαρμένην οἴονται ; Ὅτε βουλή τις τοῦ οἰχισμοῦ τοῖς σπουδάζουσι γίνεται; Ὁπότο τοῦ τόπου τὴν εὐφυῖαν ἐπιλογίζονται, ἣ ὅτε τὸ σχῆμα χαταχαράσσουσιν, ἣ ὅταν ἐπάγωσιν ἤδη τῇ ἐργασίᾳ τὸν σίδηρον, ἣ τοὺς λίθους τὰς ὕλας; Τί τούτων ἐστὶν ἀρχὴ τῆς συστάσεως ; Τὶ δὲ ἂν εἴποις περὶ τοῦ ἔθνους, ὃ ταῖς κατὰ πόλεμον συμφοραῖς ἐξετρίδη ; Τίς ἣ πόθεν κατ᾽ αὐτῶν τὴν ἀρχὴν λαδοῦσα ἣ μοῖρα, τοὺς μὲν χατεφόνευσε, τοὺς δὲ δι᾽ αἰχμαλωσίας κατἐδουλώσατο; Πῶς ᾿Αννίδας ἣ Καῖσαρ, ἣ καὶ ὁ ἐκ Μακεδονίας ᾿Αλέξανδρος παρ᾽ οἷς ἂν ἐγένοντο στρατενόμενοι, πᾶσιν ὁμοτιμίαν εἱμαρμένης εἰργάσαντο, τοσοῦτον τῆς ἀνάγκης ἐκείνης ὑπερισχύοντες, ὡς τοῖς αὐτοῖς τοῦ κακοῦ μέτροις πάντα συνάγεσθαι ; ᾿Αλλὰ μὴν τὸ οἴεσθαι τὰς τῶν πόλεων εἱμαρμένας, ἐν τοῖς τῶν σεισμῶν χαταπτώμασι τὰς συναστρίας ποιεῖν, ὡς ἕξω τοῦ εἰκότος ὁ λόγος ἐστὶν, ἐντεῦθεν ἄν τις κατίδοι· Τίς οὐκ οἶδεν ὅτι τὰ τοιαῦτα πάθη τῆς γῆς, οὐ μόνον ἐν τοῖς οἰχουμένοις τόποις, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐν τοῖς ἀοιχήτοις συνίσταται; Εἴ τις τὸ τῶν Σαγγαγῶν ὄρος τὸ πρὸς τοῖς ὁρίοις τῶν Βιθυνῶν κείμενον, ἣ τῇ καθ᾽ ἑαυτὸν ἔγνω πείρᾳ ἢ ἐκ διηγήματο; ἤκουσεν, εὑρήσει τὴν τοῦ λόγου ἀλήθειαν, ὅτι κατ᾽ αὐτὰς τῆς ὁδοῦ φοδερὸν θέαμα τοῖς διοδεύουσι γίνεται. Τοιαῦτα καὶ περὶ τὰς χώρα: τῶν Παφλαγόνων τὰ πάϑη· ἔστι δὲ ὅπου καὶ οἰκήσεις ἀνθρώπων τοῖς χάσμασι τούτοις πολλαχῇ δὲ τῶν οἰκητόρων γυμνὸς ὁ χῶρος ἐν τῷ τοιούτῳ δείκνυται πάθει. Καὶ τί χρὴ καθ᾽ ἕκαστον Κυπρίους, καὶ Πισίδας καὶ ᾿Αχαιούς· ἐν οἷς πολλὰ τῶν λεγομένων ἐστὶ τεκμήρια; ᾿ΔΑλλ᾽ οὗ χάριν τῶν εἰρημένων ἐμνήσθημεν, ὅτι πάντα τὰ τοιαδτα, γῆς ἐστι πάθη. Εἰ μὲν οὖν συνʼἐχθείη καὶ οἴκησιν ἀνθρώπων εὑρεθῆναι τῷ τόπῳ, κατὰ πᾶσαν ἀνάγκην κἀκεῖνοι τοῦ κατὰ τὸν τόπον δυσεἰ δὲ ἐλεύθερος εἴη τῶν οἰκητόρων, οὐδεμίαν ἀνθρώποις; ἤνεγκε βλάδην περὶ τὸν τόπον δυστύχημα. Τίς οὖν ἡ τῆς εἱμαρμένης ἀνάγκη, ἐπίσης τῶν τε οἰχουμένων καὶ τῶν ἀοικήτων τὸ τοιοῦτον πάθος ὑπομενόντων ; Εἰ μὲν γὰρ εἶχον ἀποδεικνύειν, κατὰ μέρη τινὰ καὶ μὴ κατὰ τὸ ἀθρόον πᾶσαν κατεσκευάσθαι τὴν γῆν, εἶχεν ἂν αὐτοῖς ἴσως καιρὸν ἡ ματαιολογία· τῷδε τῷ μέρει τῆς γῆς χτιζομένης, τῆσδε τῶν ἄστρων συμπλοκῆς ἐφαρμοσθείσης, ἢ τοῦτο ἣ ἐκεῖνο γενέσθαι κατ᾽ ἀνάγκην. ᾿Επεὶ δὲ πάντα μετ᾽ ἀλλήλων χαταλαμδάνεται, οὐρανὸς, γῆ, θάλαττα, κατὰ δὲ τὸν Μωσέως λόγον, καὶ προτερεύεε ἢ γῇ τῆς τῶν ἄστρων κατασκευῆς καὶ κινήσεως· πῶς πῶν μερικῶν κατὰ τὴν γῆν συμπτωμάτων τὴν αἰτίαν εἰς τὴν τῶν ἄστρων ἀναθήσονται κίνησιν ; Εἰ τοίνυν ὁμόχρονος τοῖς ἄστροις ἡ γῆ. καὶ οὐδεμίαν ἐκεῖθεν οὐδὲ συμπτώσεως οὔτε διαμονῆς αἰτίαν ἐπάγεται εἰ μερικαῖς δέ τισι τόπων περιγραφαῖς τὰ τοιαῦτα ὑφἰσταται πάθη ἄρα οὐκ εἱμαρμένης ἀνάγκην, ἀλλά τινα ἑτέραν ἰδιάζουσαν αἰτίαν ἐν τοῖς τοιούτοις συμπτώμασι γίνεσθαι, Ὅταν οὖν πάθῃ τι τοιοῦτον ἡ γῆ, καί τινας τοιαύτας συμφορὰς κατεργάζεται, τῶν οἱσιν οἱ προσκυνοῦντες τὴν εἱμαρμένην, καὶ τὴν τῶν ἄπτρων κίνησιν ἐπιστατεῖν τῶν ὄντων διοριζόμενοι ; ### English translation (Claude) with itself those who sail in it? And what would you say about cities? When do they think fate takes hold of a city? When some plan of settlement comes to those who are eager for it? When they reckon up the fitness of the place, or when they mark out the plan, or when they now bring iron to the work, or stones and timber? Which of these is the beginning of its constitution? And what would you say of the nation that was destroyed by the calamities of war? Who, or from where, was the portion that took its beginning against them, which slaughtered some and enslaved others through captivity? How did Hannibal or Caesar, or Alexander of Macedon, among those against whom they campaigned, produce an equality of fate for all, so far prevailing over that necessity that all were brought together to the same measures of evil? That to think the fates of cities make conjunctions of stars in the falls of earthquakes is an argument beyond what is reasonable, one may see from this. Who does not know that such sufferings of the earth occur not only in inhabited places but also in uninhabited ones? If anyone knows by his own experience the mountain of the Sangarians lying on the borders of the Bithynians, or has heard of it from report, he will find the truth of the argument: that along the very road it becomes a fearful sight for travellers. Such are the sufferings around the lands of the Paphlagonians; in some places there are human dwellings by these chasms, but in many the place is shown bare of inhabitants in such a suffering. And why must I [speak] in detail [of the] Cypriots, Pisidians, and Achaeans, among whom there are many proofs of what is said? But we have mentioned these things for this reason, that all such things are sufferings of the earth. If it should happen that there is a human dwelling in the place, of every necessity those too [share in] the misfortune of the place; but if it is free of inhabitants, the misfortune about the place brings no harm to men. What, then, is the necessity of fate, when both inhabited and uninhabited places suffer such a suffering alike? If they were able to show that the whole earth was made part by part and not all at once, their vain talk might perhaps have had an opening: that when this part of the earth was being created, with this interweaving of the stars fitted to it, this or that of necessity happened. But since all things are grasped together with one another, heaven, earth, sea, and, according to the word of Moses, the earth even comes before the making and movement of the stars, how will they refer the cause of the partial accidents on earth to the movement of the stars? If, then, the earth is of the same age as the stars and draws from there no cause either of falling or of remaining, and if such sufferings occur in particular outlines of places, then it is not a necessity of fate but some other particular cause that comes about in such accidents. When, then, the earth suffers something of the kind and works such calamities, [what will they say], those who worship fate and declare that the movement of the stars presides over beings? ### Scripture references - Gen 1:1: allusion, high confidence - Gen 1:9–19: allusion, high confidence ### Translation notes - Re-read against the Greek. "The mountain of the Sangarians" on the Bithynian border is a region of earthquakes known to Gregory; Paphlagonia, Cyprus, Pisidia, and Achaea are named as places of earthquakes. The earth made before the stars: Gen 1:1, 9–19. Latin leaks are removed by logged corrections. ### Citation (SBL) Gregory of Nyssa, Fat. 9 (PG 45; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/gregory-nyssa-fatum/9). ## Against Fate, part 10 - URL: https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/gregory-nyssa-fatum/7/#p-10 - Source: PG 45 - Translation: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), 2026-09-27 Summary: Customs prove the power of free choice: the incestuous marriages of the Persians occur only where their laws are followed, and Jews everywhere, under every configuration of stars, are circumcised on the appointed day; Gregory then begins to explain predictions as the work of a power hostile to humanity, the opposite of God's goodness. ### Greek text Πῶς ἐχεῖ τὸ νήπιον, τὸ βρέφος, τὸ μειράκιον, ὁ ἀνὴρ, ὁ πατὴρ, ὁ πρεσθύτης, ὁ εὐγενὴς, ὁ εὐπατρίδης, ὁ μισθωτὸς, ὁ δεσμώτης ; Οὔτε τῷ χρόνῳ τῆς γενέσεως, οὔτε διαφορᾷ τινι τῆς ἀξίας εἰς τὴν τῶν κακῶν ὁμοτιμίαν κωλύονται. Ἔτι πρὸς τούτοις· τίς οὐκ οἶδεν ὅτʼ παντὸς ἄγους ἔσχατόν ἐστιν ἡ θυγατρομιξία, καὶ ἀδελφογαμία, καὶ εἰς μητέρας παρανομία ; Τοῦτο τοίνυν εἰ κατά τινα μοίρας ἀνάγκην ἐγίνετο, πάντως ἂν καὶ ἐν τοῖς καθ᾽ ἡμᾶς ἐτολμήθη τόποις· ἐπεὶ δὲ μόνῳ τῷ ἔθνει Περσῶν, καὶ τοῖς τὰ ἐκείνων νόμιμα ὄεδιδαγμένοις, τὸ τοιοῦτον ἄγος τολμᾶται· δῆλον ἐκ τοῦ ἀκολούθου, ὅτι μοῖρα καὶ εἱμαρμένη ἡ ἑκάστου προαίρεσις γίνεται, τὸ δοκοῦν κατ᾽ ἐξουσίαν προαιρουμένη. Ἔτι πρὸς τούτοις, ὡς ἂν μηδὲ τὸ τοιοῦτον ἔχοιεν λέγειν, ὅτι κατὰ τὰς ποιὰς περιχλίσεις τῶν τόπων τινες ἄστρων κινήσεις καὶ διὰ τοῦτο, οἱ μὲν μητρογαμοῦσιν, νοῦσι καὶ ἀνθρωποδοροῦσι· τῆς δὲ τῶν ἄστρων τῆς θέσεως ἐκείνοις ἰδιαζόντως ἐπιπιπτούσης, εἰ καὶ πανπάπασι τῶν ἀπαιδεύτων καὶ τῆς τῶν ὄντων θεωρίας ἀνεπισχέπτων ὁ τοιοῦτο; λόγος ἐστὶ, τῶν οἱομένων ὅτι κατὰ τὰς ποιὰς τῆς γῆς περιγραφὰς καὶ ἡ ἄνωθεν αὐτοῖς λῆξις ἐπιτυποῦται· οὕτω γὰρ ἂν εὑρεθείη τὰ γῆϊνα τῶν οὐρανίων ἀρχηγιχώτερα, εἰ κατὰ ταῦτα νομίζοιτο κἀκεῖνα ἔχειν ᾿ ὅμως καὶ τοῦτο προσθήσο μεν πρὸς ἔλεγχον τῆς ἠπατημένης αὐτῶν ὑπολήψεως· Πάντα σχεδὸν τὰ μέρη τῆς γῆς τὸ τῶν Ἰουδαίων τιχοὶ, προσαρχτιχοὶ, πάντα σχεδὸν τὰ ἔθνη μέμικται πρὸς τὴν τῶν ᾿Ἰουδαέων συνοίκησιν. Πῶς τοίνυν οὐδεμία τῶν ἄστρων ἀνάγκη ἐπ᾽ οὐδενὸς αὐτῶν ἴσχυσέ τινι τῶν ἐκ τοῦ ἔθνους χαρίσασθαι τὸ ἀλώδητον, ἀλλ᾽ ἐν ταῖς μυριοτρόποις τῶν ἄστρων ἐπιπλοχαῖς, ὥσπερ τὸ τικτόμενον, ἐν τῷ ὁμοίῳ πάντως ἐστὶ, κατὰ τὴν τεταγμένην τῶν ἡμερῶν περίοδον ὑπομενούσης τὴν λώθην τῆς φύσεως ; Ὁ δὲ, Ταῦτα μὲν οὔπω, φησὶν, ἐξήτασται παρ᾽ ἡμῖν, τίνι λόγῳ διαφεύγει τὴν ἐκ τῶν ἄστρων ἀνάγκην τὰ νόμοις ἢ χεχρατημένα παρὰ πολλοῖς τῶν ἐθνῶν ἡ μέντοι πρόῤῥησις τῶν ἀποδησομένων, οὐκ ἂν μικρὸν εἰς ἀπόδειξιν νομισθείη, τοῦ ἀπαραδάτως ἔχειν τὰ μεμοιραμένα ἐκάστῳ. Πῶς γὰρ ὁ δεῖνα, τόνδε τὸν ἀριθμὸν τῶν ἑτῶν βιοτεύσειν, καὶ τοιαῖσδε συντυχίαις κατὰ τὸν βίον συνενεχυήσεσθαι προμαθὼν, εἰ μή τις ἀνάγκη κατὰ τὸ ἐκείνῳ τε ταῦτα γενέσθαι πάντως ἐπέχλωσε, προαγορεύοντι διὰ τῆς ποιᾶς τῶν κατὰ τὸν ἀριθμὸν σεσημειωμένων παρατηρήσεως δῆλον ἐποίησεν; Εγὼ ὃὲ κρεῖττον μὲν ἔφην ἐν τοῖς τοιούτοις δοκεῖν ἀγνοεῖν, ἢ γέλωτος ἀφορμὴν παρασχεῖν οἷς ἀμαθεστέροις τῶν ἡμετέρων δογμάτων ᾿ πλὴν ἀλλὰ μικρὰ φροντίσας τῶν ἐν γέλωτι τὰ καθ᾽ ἡμᾶς τιθεμένων, δι᾽ ὀλίγων, ὡς ἂν οἷός τε ὦ, πᾶσαν τὴν περὶ τούτου αἰτίαν ἐχθήσομαι.·Ἔστι τῷ γένει τῶν ἀνθρώπων κατὰ φύσιν πολέμιος δύναμίς τις ἐκ τῶν ἐναντίων τῇ ἀγαθῇ φύσει γινωσκομένη. Τούτου δὲ μυρίας μὲν ἔστι τὰς ἀποδείξεις ἐξ ἐναργῶν παραστῆσαι πραγμάτων. Οὐ μὴν ἀναγκαῖον ἡγοῦμαι τῷ παρόντι καιρῷ πάντα κατὰ τὸ ἀκόλουθον διεξιέναι, δι᾽ ὧν ταῦτα οὕτως ἔχειν πεπίστευται. Τῆς τοίνυν θείας φύσεως ἐν παντὶ ἀγαθῷ νοἡματί τε καὶ ὀνόματι θεωρουμένης, παρ᾽ ἧς ἡ ζωὴ, τὸ φῶς, ἡ ἀλήθεια, τὸ δίκαιόν τε καὶ σοφὸν, καὶ ἄφθαρτον, καὶ πᾶν ὅ τί περ ἔστι κατ᾽ ἔννοιαν λαθεῖν ἀγαθὸν, τοῦτο οὔσης καὶ τοῦτο χαριζομένης, ἢ ἐκ τῶν ἐναντίων γνωριζομένη δύναμις ἐκ πάντων κατὰ τὸ ἀντικείμενον ἑκάστῳ τῶν ἀγαθῶν θεωρουμένων χαταλαμδάνεται. Ὥστε ἀντὶ μὲν ζωῆς, θάνατον, ἀντὶ δὲ ἀληθείας, ἀπάτην, καὶ ἀνθ᾽ ἑκάστου τῶν βελτιόνων, τὴν ἀντιδιαστελλομένην κακίαν παρ᾽ αὐτοῖς τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ἐπάγεσθαι· εἶναι γὰρ αὐτῇ τοῦτο φῇον, ὅπερ ἂν τῇ φύσει τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ἐπ᾽ ὀλέθρῳ γίνεται. ### English translation (Claude) How is it that there the infant, the babe, the youth, the man, the father, the old man, the well-born, the noble, the hireling, the prisoner are hindered neither by the time of birth nor by any difference of rank from an equal share in the evils? Besides this, who does not know that intercourse with daughters, marriage with sisters, and lawlessness with mothers are the last extreme of every pollution? If this happened by some necessity of portion, it would surely have been ventured in our regions too. But since such a pollution is ventured only by the nation of the Persians and those who have been taught their customs, it is plain in consequence that each one's free choice becomes his portion and fate, choosing by its own authority what it thinks fit. And besides this, so that they may not be able to say even this, that according to the particular inclinations of the regions there are certain movements of the stars, and for this reason some marry their mothers, [others ...] and eat men, the position of the stars falling particularly on them (even if such an argument belongs to those wholly uneducated and unexamined in the contemplation of beings, who think that the lot from above is stamped on them according to the particular outlines of the earth; for so earthly things would be found more governing than heavenly ones, if those were thought to be according to these), nevertheless we shall add this too for the refutation of their deceived supposition. The [nation] of the Jews [is scattered over] almost all parts of the earth, [eastern, western], southern, northern; almost all the nations are mixed with the Jews living among them. How, then, did no necessity of the stars in any of them prevail to grant any one of that nation freedom from circumcision; but in the countless interweavings of the stars every child born is surely in the same state, nature undergoing the cutting at the appointed period of days? He said: "We have not yet examined by what reason things held by laws among many nations escape the necessity from the stars. But the prediction of what will come about would not be thought a small proof that what is portioned to each is inviolable. For how did so-and-so, having learned beforehand that he would live this number of years and meet such chances in life, [know it], unless some necessity had spun these things to happen to him in every case, making it plain to the one who foretold it through the particular observation of what was marked by number?" I said that it was better to seem ignorant in such matters than to give an occasion for laughter to those more ignorant of our doctrines; but, caring little for those who make our affairs a laughingstock, I would set out briefly, as far as I could, the whole cause of this. There is a power hostile by nature to the race of men, known from what is opposite to the good nature. One could present countless proofs of this from evident facts; but I do not think it necessary at the present time to go through in sequence everything by which this is believed to be so. Since the divine nature is seen in every good thought and name, from which come life, light, truth, the just and wise and incorruptible, and everything good that can be grasped in thought, being this and granting this, the power known from the opposites is grasped as being seen in all things that are opposed to each of the goods: so that instead of life it brings death, instead of truth deceit, and instead of each of the better things the evil set against it, among men themselves. For this is dear to it, whatever by nature becomes destruction for men. ### Scripture references - Gen 17:12: allusion, high confidence - Lev 12:3: allusion, medium confidence ### Translation notes - Re-read against the Greek. The charge of incestuous marriage among the Persians (Zoroastrian next-of-kin marriage) is a common Greek report; translated as written. Circumcision on the eighth day: Gen 17:12; Lev 12:3. Several words are lost in the list of regions where Jews live and in the list of customs ("[others …] and eat men"); supplied in brackets or marked "…". Latin leaks are removed by logged corrections. ### Citation (SBL) Gregory of Nyssa, Fat. 10 (PG 45; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/gregory-nyssa-fatum/10). ## Against Fate, part 11 - URL: https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/gregory-nyssa-fatum/7/#p-11 - Source: PG 45 - Translation: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), 2026-09-27 Summary: Demons sweeten their deceit with predictions and cures, as poisoners use honey; every kind of divination, from livers, birds, dreams, the prophetic water and the Pythian vapour, comes from the same demonic source and none proves fate; astrologers hedge their predictions, as when a usurper under Valens was encouraged by a horoscope and ruined; the whole aim is to turn people from God. ### Greek text Ὥσπερ δὲ οἱ διὰ τῶν δηλητηρίων χαχοποιοῦντες, πολλάκις καὶ μέλιτι τὸ φθεῖρον ἐφηδύνουσι φάρμακον, οὐκ εὐφρᾶναι τῇ γεύσει τὸν βλαπτόμενον σπουδὴν ποιούμενοι, ἀλλ᾽ ἐχχλέψαι τὴν τοῦ φθείροντος αἴδθη σιν· οὕτω καὶ ἡ φθοροποιὸς αὕτη φύσις, σκοπὸν ἔχουσα τῆς ἀγαθῆς φύσεως ἀποστῆσαι τὸν ἄνθρωπον, ἀγαθῶν τινων πραγμάτων μορφὰς ὑποδύεται, προῤῥήσεσί τισι καὶ ἰατρείαις τὸν ἐγκεκρυμμένον τῆς ἀπάτης λόγον ἐπιχαλύπτουσα· ὡς ἂν τούτῳ προσἔχοντες τὸ δείλαιον τῶν ἀνθρώπων γένος, τοῦτό τε νομίξοντες ἀγαθὸν εἶναι, τοῦ ὄντως κατὰ φύσιν ἀγαθοῦ μηδεμίαν ἔχοιεν ἐπιθυμίαν. Διά τοι τοῦτο καθάπερ ἄν τις προγνώσεως εἶδος διά τινος ἀπάτης προεἰλημμένος τύχῃ, κατ᾽ ἐκεῖνο καὶ ἡ ἀπατηλὴ τῶν δαιμόνων ὑπήκουσε δύναμις, ἐν ἡπατοσκοπίαις καὶ οἷωνιἑχάστου τούτων, [ἀλλ᾽] οὐ κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον, ἀλλὰ διαφόρως τὸ ἐφεξῆς προμηνύοντος. Ὥσπερ τοίνυν ὁ τῷ ἥπατι τὸ μέλλον διασημαίνων, ὁ διά τινος χλῃδόνος προειχάσας τὸ ἐσόμενον, ἣ ὁ πρὸς τὴν πτῆσιν τοῦ οἰωνοῦ βλέπων, οὐ τῇ τῆς εἱμαρμένης ἀνάγκῃ τὰ τοιαῦτα προαγορεύειν κατεπαγγέλλεται· τὸν αὐτὸν ρόπον μιᾶς οὔσης αἰτίας, καθὼς εἴρηται, τῆς τὸ τοιοῦτο τῆς προῤῥήσεως εἶδος μετιούσης, λέγω δὲ Ὁ τῆς κατὰ τὴν ἀπατηλὴν τῶν δαιμόνων ἐνέργειαν· οὐκ ἐπειδή ποτέ τι κατὰ τὸ συμδὰν ἐπετέχθη τῶν εἰρημένων (εἴπερ δὴ ὅλως μὲν ἐπετέχθη), διὰ τούτου ἡ τῆς εἱμαρμένης ἀποδείκνυται δύναμις, ἐπεὶ πᾶν προῤῥήσεως εἶδος, εἰκότως ἂν ἐξ εἱμαρμένης τὴν ἰσχὺν ἔχειν χατασχευάζοιτο.·Ὥστε ἡμῖν μίαν μὲν εἱμαρμένην εἶναι τὸν ὄνειρον· ἑτέραν δὲ τὴν ἐκ παλμῶν παρατήρησιν· ἄλλην δὲ, ἐξ οἰωνισμῶν, ἢ χληἢ τινων συμδόλων συνισταμένην. Εἰ δὲ οὐδὲν ἐπ᾽ ἐκείνων κωλύει καὶ πρόῤῥησιν εἶναι καὶ εἶμαρμένην μὴ εἶναι· οὐδὲ εἴ τις ἐξ ἀριθμοῦ τοῖς γενεθλιαπρόῤῥησις, ἀρχοῦσα γένοιτο ἂν πίστις εἰς τὸ μὴ ῥᾳδίως τὰ τοιαῦτα ἐπιτυγχάνεσθαι. Καίτοι: γε οὔτε ἀχριδεῖς τε καὶ ἀναμφίδολοι παρὰ τῶν τὰ τοιαῦτα ἐπαγγελλομένων αἱ νονται, ἀλλὰ πολλὰς ἑαυτοῖς ἀναχωρήσεις παρα- πδπὶ ἐπὶ τῇ ἐχδάσει, εἰ πρὸς τοὐναντίον ὁ λόγος ἐλέγχοιτο, καί τινα προτεχνολογοῦσιν ἑαυτοῖς οἷς τούτων μέλει· ὥστε μὴ τῆς ἐπιστήμης τῷ ἐσφαλμένῳ, ἀλλὰ τῆς κατὰ τὴν ὥραν σημειώσεως τὴν ἀποτυχίαν λογίζεσθαι, καὶ λοξαὶ ὡς ἐπίπαν καὶ πρὸς παρ᾽ αὑτῶν αἱ προῤῥήσεις, ἵν᾿ ὅπερ ἂν ἐχθῇ, τοῦτο προμεμηνύσθα: δόξῃ. Πολλάκις γὰρ τὸ περιφανές τε καὶ τὸ ὑπὲρ τοὺς ἄλλους ὁ τὴν ὥραν τῆς γενέσεως κατανοήσας ἐμήνυσεν. Εἶτα ἐν ἐξαισίοις τισὶ συμφοραῖς τούτου γεγονότος, οὐδὲν διεσφάλθαςι προαγορεύσας διισχυρίσατο. Εἶχε γὰρ ὑπὲρ τοὺς ἄλλους τὸ πλέον εἰς τὴν τῶν κακῶν μετουσίαν· καὶ τούτων ἦ καθ᾽ ἡμᾶς ἱστορία μάρτυς ἐστίν. Οὐάλεντος γὰρ τοῦ βασιλέως ἐπὶ τῆς τῶν Ῥωμαίων ὄντος ἀρχῆς, ἀπάτη τις τοιαύτη πρὸς τὴν ἄνταρσιν τῆς ἀρχῆς παρεχίνησε. Καὶ ὁ μὲν ὥρμησεν ἐφόδιον πρὸς τὴν τόλμαν τῶν γενεθλιαλογούντων προαγόρευσιν ἔχων τὸ δὲ πέρας τῆς ἐγχειρήσεως τοιοῦτον ἐγένετο, ὥστε αὐτὸν τὸν ἐπὶ ταῖς μεγίσταις ἀρχαῖς γνωρισθέντα, ἐν τῷ μεγέθει τῆς συμφορᾶς γενέσθαι διασημότερον· καὶ τοῦτο συνεργία τῆς γενεθλιαλογίας τοῖς πολλοῖς ἐνομίσθη, ὅτι τὸ κατὰ συμφορὰν μέγεθος ἀντὶ τοῦ μεγέθους τῶν ἀγαθῶν τῷ ἀνδρὶ συνηνέχθη. Ἐγὼ δὲ τὸ μὲν πεπλανημένας τὰς περὶ τούτων γίνεσθαι προαγορεύσεις, οὕπω μέγα ποιοῦμαι τεκμήριον τοῦ μὴ ἑστάναι τῆς εἱμαρμένης τὸν λόγον· ἀλλ᾽ ἐπειδὴ πολλαῖς καὶ ἄλλαις ἐπινοίαις ἡ ἀπατηλὴ τῶν δαιμόνων δύναμις τὰς προῤῥήσεις σοφίζεται. Καὶ γὰρ καὶ ὕδωρ τι μαντικὸν, παραφορὰς καὶ μανίας τοῖς γευσαμένοις ἐνεργαζόμενον, καὶ πνεῦμα κάτωθεν διά τινος στομίου διεξερχόμενον: ὅπερ εἰ ἐν γυναικείοις γένοιτο σπλάγχνοις ἐξῳδηκένα: τὴν γαστέρα ἑποίει, καὶ τῆς διανοίας ἔχατασιν, καὶ παραφορὰν τοῦ καθεστηκότος εἰργάζετο. ΓΔπερ πάντα, θεῖζά τε καὶ μαντικὰ τοῖς ἀπατωμένοις ἐδόκει, τῶν τε ἐξ ἥπατος ἣ πυρὸς σημείοις τισὶ τὸ μέλλον προεικαζόντων, ἢ τῶν πρὸς τὰς πτήσεις τῶν ὀρνέων, οὐδεὶς ἀνέθηκε τῇ εἱμαρμένῃ τὴν τῆς προῤῥήσεως δύναμιν· ἀλλά τινι δαιμονίᾳ καταχωχῇ τὸ τοιοῦτον λογίζονται. Οὕτω φημὶ, ἢ μὴ εἶναι καθόλου προαγόρευσιν διὰ τὸ πολλοῖς ἐναντιώμασι τὰς προῤῥήσεις ἐλέγχεσθαι, ἣ εἴπερ ἀποδείκνυσί τις αὐτὴν ὡς προλέγουσάν τῶν ἐχδησομένων, ὅπερ ἐπὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἑκάστου τῶν οὔτο καὶ ἐπὶ τοῦ τοιούτου τῆς προῤῥήσεως εἴδους οἰόμεθα χρῆναι νομίζειν. Ἶσον γὰρ ἐπὶ πάντων τούτων ἐστὶ, τὸ ἐν τοῖς πλείοσι διαμαρτάνειν, τό τε ἕν τισιν δοκεῖν μὴ ἔξω τῆς τῶν ἐχόησομένων ἀληθείας ἄγειν τὴν πρόῤῥηπιν· καὶ τῇ ἀπατηλῇ τῶν δαιμόνων φύσει ὁμοίως, καὶ διὰ ταύτης καὶ πάσης ἐπινοίας ὁ σκοπὸς κατορθοῦται· τὸ γὰρ ἀποστῆσαι τὸν ἄνθρωπον τοῦ πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν βλέπειν, κἀκεῖθεν ἑαυτῷ τὴν τῶν ἀγαθῶν μοῖραν παρασκευάζειν, ἀντὶ παντὸς τοἷς δαίμοσι σπουδάζεται. Τὸ τοίνυν πεπεῖσθαι τοὺς εὐεξαπατήτους, μὴ ἐπὶ τῷ θείῳ βουλήματι τὰ κατὰ τὸν βίον κεῖσθαι· ἀλλ᾽ ἐπὶ τῇ τοιᾷδε τῶν ἄστρων διαπλοχῇ, καὶ τῇ ἐκεῖθεν ἀποῤῥεούσῃ δυνάμει, πάντων μάλιστα πρὸς τὸν σκοπὸν τῆς βλαπτιχῆς τῶν δαιμόνων φύσεως βλέπει. Εἰ οὖν κεχαρισμένον ἐστὶ τοῖς δαίμοσι, τοῦ Θεοῦ ἀποστῆσαι τὸν ἄνθρωπον, ἀφίστησι ὃς ἡ περὶ ταῦτα πλάνη, ἀποδείκνυται σαφῶς δαιμονία τίς οὖσα ἐνέργεια, δι’ ἀπάτης παραχρονομένη τοὺς πᾶσαν μὲν ἐν τούτοις τὴν δύναμιν εἶναι νομίζοντας· πρὸς δὲ παντοδύνα μον τοῦ Θεοῦ ἐξουσίαν μὴ ### English translation (Claude) As those who do harm with poisons often sweeten the destroying drug with honey, not taking pains to please the taste of the one harmed, but to steal away the sensation of what destroys, so too this destroying nature, having as its aim to make man stand away from the good nature, puts on the forms of certain good things, covering the hidden reason of its deceit with predictions and cures, so that the wretched race of men, attending to this and thinking it good, may have no desire for what is truly good by nature. For this reason, whatever form of foreknowledge someone happens to have accepted beforehand through some deceit, the deceitful power of demons answers according to it, in the inspection of livers and in [the observation of birds, in dreams and in omens], [none] of these foretelling what follows in the same way, but each differently. As, then, the one who signifies the future by the liver, the one who guesses beforehand what will be by some chance utterance, or the one who looks to the flight of the bird, does not claim to foretell such things by the necessity of fate, in the same way, since the cause that pursues this kind of prediction is one, as has been said, I mean the deceitful activity of demons, the power of fate is not shown because one of the things said once happened by chance to come true (if indeed it came true at all); since then every kind of prediction might reasonably be established as having its strength from fate, so that for us the dream would be one fate, the observation from twitchings another, and another made up from omens or chance utterances or certain signs. But if nothing in those cases prevents there being prediction and there not being fate, neither would a prediction from number by the casters of nativities be sufficient proof [of fate], [especially since] such things do not easily come true. And yet the predictions given by those who profess such things are neither exact nor free of doubt, but they [prepare] many retreats for themselves in the outcome, in case the word should be refuted to the contrary; and those who care for these things devise in advance some technical excuses for themselves, so as to reckon the failure not to the error of the science but to the noting of the hour. And their predictions are for the most part oblique and [ambiguous], so that whatever comes out may seem to have been foretold. For often the one who has examined the hour of birth has foretold distinction and pre-eminence above others; then, when this man came to be in some extraordinary calamities, he maintained that he had not erred at all in his prediction, for the man had more than others in his share of evils. Of these things the history of our own time is a witness. When the emperor Valens held the rule of the Romans, some such deceit stirred a certain man to revolt against the rule. He set out having the prediction of the casters of nativities as provision for his daring; and the end of the attempt was such that he, who had been made known for the greatest offices, became the more famous in the greatness of his calamity; and this was thought by the many to be a confirmation of the casting of nativities, that greatness of calamity befell the man instead of greatness of goods. For my part, I do not yet make it a great proof that the doctrine of fate does not stand that predictions about these things turn out mistaken; but since the deceitful power of demons contrives predictions by many other devices too. For there is a prophetic water, working derangement and madness in those who taste it, and a vapour coming up from below through some opening, which, if it came into a woman's inward parts, made her belly swell and worked an ecstasy of the mind and a derangement of the settled state. All these seemed divine and prophetic to the deceived; and of those who guess the future by certain signs from the liver or from fire, or of those who look to the flights of birds, no one ascribed the power of prediction to fate, but they reckon such a thing to some demonic possession. So I say: either there is no prediction at all, because predictions are refuted by many contrary instances; or, if someone shows it to foretell what will come about, then what we think must be held of each of the others, we must hold of this kind of prediction too. For in all these alike it is the same, to err in most cases and to seem in some not to lead the prediction outside the truth of what will come about; and the aim is achieved alike by the deceitful nature of the demons, through this and every device. For to make man stand away from looking to God, and from preparing from there for himself the portion of goods, is pursued by the demons above all. So the persuasion of the easily deceived that the things of life lie not in the divine will but in the particular interweaving of the stars and the power flowing from there looks most of all to the aim of the harmful nature of the demons. If, then, it pleases the demons to make man stand away from God, and the error about these things does make him stand away, it is clearly shown to be a demonic activity, deceiving through deceit those who think that all power is in these things, and toward the all-powerful authority of God [do not ...] ### Translation notes - Re-read against the Greek. The revolt "under the emperor Valens" is probably that of Procopius (365–366); Gregory does not name him. The "prophetic water" and the vapour from below that entered a woman's body are the springs of oracles and the Pythia at Delphi; Gregory does not name the places. - The staged text breaks off in mid-sentence ("… toward the all-powerful authority of God [do not …]"); the rest of the treatise is not in the staged text. Latin leaks are removed by logged corrections; some lost words are supplied in brackets. ### Citation (SBL) Gregory of Nyssa, Fat. 11 (PG 45; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/gregory-nyssa-fatum/11).