Against Faustus the Manichaean 15.9–16.12

Latin text: Zycha, CSEL 25.1 (Latin text: Joseph Zycha, Contra Faustum Manichaeum (CSEL 25.1, 1891), digitized by Open Greek and Latin (csel-dev, University of Leipzig), CC BY-SA 4.0).English: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), public domain (CC0). Compare: NPNF 1/4: Reply to Faustus the Manichaean (Philip Schaff, ed., 1887).

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Chapter 15

15.9CSEL 25.1:435–436

Haec sponsa Christi gaudens in spe plenae salutis suae et tibi optat bonam conuersionem a fabulis ad ueritatem, ne Adoneum quasi adulterum reformidans cum uersutissimo adultero serpente remaneas. Adoneus enim uerbum hebraeum est et interpretatur dominus eo modo, quo solus deus dicitur dominus, sicut latria, quod uerbum graecum est et interpretatur seruitus, non quaecumque, sed illa, qua tantummodo deo seruitur; sicut Amen interpretatur "uerum," non ubicumque et quomodocumque. sed mystica religione. quodsi a te quaeratur, unde tu quoque habeas praeter hebraeas litteras uel quae ex hebraeo sunt, non inuenies. non ergo timet ecclesia Christi istorum nominum obiectionem, intellegit et amat; nec curat inperitum insultatorem; et quae nondum intellegit, credit esse talia, qualia nonnulla experta est, quae nondum intellecta sic erant. obiciat ei quisque quod Emmanuhel adamauerit, inridet inscitiam illius hominis, amplectitur ueritatem huius nominis. obiciat quod amauerit Messiam, repellit exstinctum aduersarium, tenet unctum magistrum. ita te quoque cupit sanari a uanis erroribus et aedificari super fundamentum apostolorum et prophetarum. quem dicis Hippocentaurum, nesciens quid loquaris, nec adtendis, quid tibi tua fabula confecerit, cum ex parte dei tui et ex parte terrae tenebrarum falsum mundum fabricat in corde tuo. itane ille non est Hippocentaurus semiferus et semideus? uere, quia nec Hippocentaurus dicendus est. quid autem sit, tu adtende et. erubesce et mitesce, ut corruptionem tuam a serpente adultero perhorrescas: cuius astutiam si apud Moysen credendam non putasti, apud Paulum cauere debuisti, qui ueram ecclesiam uolens uirginem castam exhibere Christo, timeo, inquit, ne sicut serpens Euam fefellit in uersutia sua, corrumpantur mentes uestrae a simplicitate et castitate, quae est in Christo. hoc tu cum audires, usque adeo tamen desipuisti et uenenatis incantationibus eius amens facta es, ut aliis multis haeresibus aliud atque aliud idem serpens, tibi autem etiam se Christum esse persuaserit. porro si errant multae fallaciis eius uariis et multiformibus inretitae, quae tamen hanc admonitionem apostoli ueram fatentur, tu quantum adulterata es, quam in longinquo prostituta, quae ipsum pro Christo habes, a quo apostolus Christi seductam Euam atque corruptam clamat, ut ab eo uirginem sponsam Christi tali admonitione custodiat? tenebrauit cor tuum, qui tecum in phantasmatis lucidorum nemorum uolutatur. quae sunt, ubi sunt, unde sunt fidelia promissa eius? o ebria, non a uino!

This bride of Christ, rejoicing in the hope of her full salvation, wishes you too a good conversion from fables to the truth, so that you may not, dreading Adonai as if he were an adulterer, remain with the most cunning adulterer, the serpent. For Adonai is a Hebrew word and means “Lord” in the sense in which God alone is called Lord; just as latria, a Greek word, means service, not any service whatever, but that by which God alone is served; just as Amen means “true,” not anywhere and in any way, but in a mystical religious sense. And if you were asked where you too have it from, you will find no source except the Hebrew writings, or what derives from the Hebrew. So the church of Christ does not fear objections about these names; she understands and loves them, and pays no attention to the ignorant mocker; and what she does not yet understand, she believes to be of the same kind as many things she has experienced, which were like this when not yet understood. Let anyone object to her that she has loved Emmanuel: she laughs at that man's ignorance and embraces the truth of this name. Let him object that she has loved the Messiah: she repels the slain adversary and holds to the anointed teacher. So she wishes you too to be healed of vain errors and to be built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets. You talk of a hippocentaur without knowing what you are saying, and you do not notice what your own fable has made for you, when it fashions in your heart a false world partly from your god and partly from the land of darkness. Is that not a hippocentaur, half beast and half god? Truly not, for it should not even be called a hippocentaur. But consider what it is, and blush, and grow gentle, so that you may shudder at your corruption by the adulterous serpent. If you did not think his cunning credible in Moses, you ought to have been on your guard against it in Paul, who, wishing to present the true church as a chaste virgin to Christ, says: “I fear that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity and chastity that is in Christ.” Though you heard this, you were still so foolish and so maddened by his poisonous incantations that, while the same serpent has persuaded many other heresies of one thing and another, he has persuaded you that he himself is Christ. Further, if many go astray, entangled by his various and many-shaped deceits, who yet confess this warning of the apostle to be true, how greatly are you adulterated, how far off prostituted, who take for Christ the very one by whom the apostle of Christ cries out that Eve was seduced and corrupted, so as to guard the virgin bride of Christ from him by such a warning? He has darkened your heart, who wallows with you in the phantoms of shining groves. What, where, whence are his faithful promises? O you drunk, but not with wine!

2 Tim 4:4 (allusion, medium confidence) · Isa 7:14 (allusion, medium confidence) · Eph 2:20 (allusion, high confidence) · 2 Cor 11:2 (allusion, high confidence) · 2 Cor 11:3 (quotation, high confidence) · Isa 29:9 (allusion, medium confidence) · Isa 51:21 (allusion, medium confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Augustine explains Adonai and other Hebrew and Greek words the church uses, turns Faustus's hippocentaur against the Manichaean mixed world, and charges them with taking the serpent for Christ.

  • Some Manichaean texts gave a positive role to the serpent of Eden as a revealer, and identified the Jesus who brings knowledge with it; Augustine alludes to this.
  • “The slain adversary”: Augustine may mean the devil overcome by Christ; the phrase is brief and uncertain.

Notes on the original text

  • Digital text corrected (stray letter): eius?s o ebria → eius? o ebria.

Topics: Heresy

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 15.9 (CSEL 25.1:435–436; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-15-9). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

15.10CSEL 25.1:436–438

Nempe conuiciata es inpudentia sacrilega deo prophetarum. quod ipsis Iudaeis sibi seruientibus non exhibuerit, quod promisit. nec sane dixisti, quid promiserit et non exhibuerit, ne ibi conuincereris aut iam exhibitum, quod non intellegis, aut adhuc futurum. quod non credis. tibi quid promissum est et praesentatum, unde tibi fides fieret te accepturam triumphos nouorum saeculorum super terram tenebrarum? si aliquos prophetas protuleris, in quibus legamus cum laude praedictos futuros Manichaeos, unde iam tibi aliquid exhibitum putes, hoc ipso, quia esse uos uidemus, prius probatura es, quod non ipse Manichaeus tibi prophetas finxerit, qui sibi ut crederes uoluit. neque enim putat turpe mendacium, aut uero potest dubitare falsos prophetas ostendere in pellibus ouinis, qui Christum laudans adseuerat falsas cicatrices ostendisse in membris suis. at ego uos plane praedictos lego, non solum a prophetis aliquando obscurius, uerum et ab apostolo expressius. sed uidete quemadmodum. spiritus, inquit, manifeste dicit, quia in nouissimis temporibus recedent quidam a fide, intendentes spiritibus seductoribus et doctrinis daemoniorum in hypocrisi mendaciloquorum cauteriatam habentium conscientiam suam, prohibentes nubere, abstinentes a cibis, quos deus creauit ad percipiendum cum gratiarum actione fidelibus et his, qui cognouerunt ueritatem, quia omnis creatura dei bona est, et nihil abiciendum, quod cum gratiarum actione percipitur. haec quemadmodum in uobis inpleta sint, et luce clarius omnium, qui uos nouerunt, oculos tangit et supra pro tempore ostendimus.

Indeed, with sacrilegious shamelessness you have abused the God of the prophets, saying that he did not provide for the Jews themselves, who served him, what he promised. Yet you did not say what he promised and did not provide, lest you be convicted there of its being either already provided, which you do not understand, or still to come, which you do not believe. What has been promised and presented to you, from which you could have assurance that you will receive the triumphs of new ages over the land of darkness? If you bring forward some prophets in whom we may read the Manichaeans foretold with praise as to come, so that you may think something already provided for you by the very fact that we see you exist, you will first have to prove that Mani himself did not invent the prophets for you, he who wanted you to believe him. For he does not think a lie shameful, nor indeed can he hesitate to show false prophets in sheep's clothing, who, while praising Christ, asserts that he showed false scars on his members. But I read that you were plainly foretold, not only by the prophets, sometimes more obscurely, but also by the apostle more expressly. But see how. “The Spirit,” he says, “says plainly that in the last times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, in the hypocrisy of liars who have their conscience seared, forbidding marriage, abstaining from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful and by those who have known the truth; because every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected that is received with thanksgiving.” How this has been fulfilled in you is clearer than light to the eyes of all who know you, and we showed it above as occasion allowed.

Matt 7:15 (allusion, high confidence) · John 20:27 (allusion, medium confidence) · 1 Tim 4:1 (quotation, high confidence) · 1 Tim 4:2 (quotation, high confidence) · 1 Tim 4:3 (quotation, high confidence) · 1 Tim 4:4 (quotation, high confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Augustine asks what promises the Manichaeans have seen fulfilled, and says that they were foretold by Paul's prophecy of those who forbid marriage and abstain from foods.

Topics: Heresy, Marriage

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 15.10 (CSEL 25.1:436–438; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-15-10). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

15.11CSEL 25.1:438–439

Ista autem, quam doctrina apostolica uirginem castam uni uiro exhibens Christo, a fallacia serpentis, qua tu corrupta es, monet ut caueat, agnoscit deum prophetarum, deum uerum. deum suum; huius ultimae pollicitationi secura credit, cuius tanta promissa conpleta iam tenet, nec quisquam dicit ad praesens tempus ei confictos esse prophetas, - quos in Iudaeorum codicibus adserit. quid enim incredibilius promittebatur quam id, quod Abrahae dictum est: in semine tuo benedicentur omnes gentes? et quid certius iam tenemus exhibitum? illa certe est ultima eius promissio, quam propheta breuiter ita commemorat: beati, qui habitant in domo tua; in saecula saeculorum laudabunt te. finita quippe omni indigentia et nouissima inimica morte destructa perpetua dei laus erit otiosorum negotium: quo iam nemo accedet, unde iam nemo discedet. quod alibi propheta ita commemorat: conlauda, Hierusalem, dominum; lauda deum tuum. Sion. quoniam confirmauit seras portarum tuarum, benedixit filios tuos in te. clausis portis nullus intrabit. nullus exibit. quod et ipse sponsus in euangelio dicit fatuis uirginibus etiam pulsantibus se non aperturum. haec Hierusalem, sancta ecclesia, sponsa Christi, in apocalypsi Iohannis copiosius uberiusque describitur. non credat huic propheticae promissioni uirgo casta, si non iam tenet, quod ei per eandem prophetiam hoc tempore futurum promissum est: audi filia et uide et inclina aurem tuam et obliuiscere populum tuum et domum patris tui, quoniam concupiuit rex speciem tuam, quia ipse est deus tuus, et adorabunt eum filiae Tyri in muneribus; uultum tuum deprecabuntur diuites plebis. omnis gloria eius filiae regis intrinsecus in fimbriis aureis circumamicta uarietatibus; adferentur regi uirgines post eam, proximae eius adferentur tibi, in laetitia et exultatione adducentur in templum regis. pro patribus tuis nati sunt tibi filii, constitues eos principes super omnem terram; memores erunt nominis tui in omni progenie et generatione; propterea populi confitebuntur tibi in aeternum et in saeculum saeculi. sed tu infelix a serpente corrupta quando uel cogitare conaris, quae sit pulchritudo filiae regis intrinsecus? ipsa est enim castitas mentis, ubi tu uitiata es, ut aperirentur tibi oculi ad amandum et adorandum solem et lunam, acsi per iustum iudicium dei alienareris a ligno uitae, quod est aeterna et interna sapientia, nihilque aliud uocares putaresque ueritatem atque sapientiam nisi lucem istam, quam per male apertos oculos tractam et in inmensum auctam multipliciterque uariatam per imagines faculosas inpudica mente conuolueres. - hae sunt fornicationes tuae nimis abominandae. et tamen patienter cogita eas et. reuertere ad me,, dicit ueritas. reuertere ad me, et mundaberis, reparaberis, si confundaris tibi et refundaris mihi. hoc audi, hoc dicit uera ueritas, quae nec fallacibus formis cum tenebrarum gente pugnauit nec fallaci sanguine te redemit.

But she whom the apostolic teaching, presenting her as a chaste virgin to the one husband, Christ, warns to beware of the serpent's deceit by which you have been corrupted, acknowledges the God of the prophets, the true God, her God. She securely believes his last promise, since she already holds so many of his promises fulfilled; and no one says that the prophets she cites from the manuscripts of the Jews were invented for her for the present time. For what was promised more incredible than what was said to Abraham: “In your seed all nations shall be blessed”? And what do we now hold more certainly provided? That indeed is his last promise, which the prophet briefly records thus: “Blessed are those who dwell in your house; they will praise you for ever and ever.” For when all need is ended and death, the last enemy, destroyed, the everlasting praise of God will be the occupation of those at rest: to which no one will come any more, from which no one will depart any more. This the prophet records elsewhere thus: “Praise the Lord, Jerusalem; praise your God, Zion; for he has strengthened the bars of your gates; he has blessed your sons within you.” With the gates shut, no one will enter, no one will go out. This the bridegroom himself says in the gospel, that he will not open to the foolish virgins even when they knock. This Jerusalem, the holy church, the bride of Christ, is described more fully and richly in the Apocalypse of John. Let the chaste virgin not believe this prophetic promise, if she does not already hold what was promised her through the same prophecy for this present time: “Hear, daughter, and see, and incline your ear, and forget your people and your father's house, for the king has desired your beauty, for he is your God; and the daughters of Tyre shall worship him with gifts; the rich of the people shall entreat your face. All the glory of the king's daughter is within, clothed in golden fringes with varied colours; virgins shall be brought to the king after her, her companions shall be brought to you; in joy and gladness they shall be led into the king's temple. In place of your fathers sons are born to you; you shall make them princes over all the earth; they shall remember your name in every generation and offspring; therefore the peoples shall confess you for ever and for ages of ages.” But you, unhappy one corrupted by the serpent, when do you even try to think what is the beauty of the king's daughter within? For it is chastity of mind, where you were spoiled, so that your eyes were opened to love and worship the sun and moon, as if by the just judgment of God you were estranged from the tree of life, which is eternal and inward wisdom, and called and thought nothing else truth and wisdom but this light, which, drawn in through wrongly opened eyes and swollen to immensity and varied in many ways, you rolled about with an unchaste mind in imaginary pictures. These are your exceedingly abominable fornications. And yet think on them patiently, and “Return to me,” says the Truth. Return to me, and you will be cleansed, restored, if you are confounded in yourself and poured back into me. Hear this; this is what the true Truth says, which neither fought with the race of darkness in deceitful forms nor redeemed you with deceitful blood.

2 Cor 11:2 (allusion, high confidence) · 2 Cor 11:3 (allusion, high confidence) · Gen 22:18 (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 84:4 (83:5 LXX) (quotation, high confidence) · 1 Cor 15:26 (allusion, high confidence) · Ps 147:12 (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 147:13 (quotation, high confidence) · Matt 25:11 (allusion, high confidence) · Matt 25:12 (allusion, high confidence) · Rev 21:2 (allusion, high confidence) · Ps 45:10 (44:11 LXX) (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 45:11 (44:12 LXX) (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 45:12 (44:13 LXX) (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 45:13 (44:14 LXX) (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 45:14 (44:15 LXX) (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 45:15 (44:16 LXX) (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 45:16 (44:17 LXX) (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 45:17 (44:18 LXX) (quotation, high confidence) · Gen 3:7 (allusion, high confidence) · Gen 3:24 (allusion, medium confidence) · Jer 3:1 (allusion, low confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Augustine says the church trusts God's final promise of eternal praise because his earlier promises, such as the blessing of all nations and Psalm 45's bride, are fulfilled, and calls the Manichaeans to return.

  • “Return to me” echoes the prophets (e.g. Jer 3:1, 3:12; Zech 1:3); the exact source is uncertain.

Notes on the original text

  • Digital text corrected (stray mark): populum' tuum → populum tuum.

Topics: Eschatology, Heresy

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 15.11 (CSEL 25.1:438–439; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-15-11). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

Chapter 16

16.1CSEL 25.1:439–441

DECIMUS. FAUSTUS dixit: Quare Moysen non accipitis, cum Christus dicat: Moyses de me scripsit, et: si crederetis Moysi. crederetis et mihi? ego uero non solum Moysen de Christo scripsisse uelim, sed omnes etiam prophetas Iudaeorum et gentium. quid enim hoc nostrae fidei noceret, aut quid non potius prodesset, si congrua et conuenientia undique in deum nostrum testimonia carperemus? siquidem esset etiam tum liberum nobis odio manente atque execratione superstitionis eorum solas ab eisdem de Christo excerpere prophetias; adeo mihi contrarium non potest esse, si et Moyses, quamuis sit alienus a Christo, nonnihil tamen uideatur scripsisse de Christo. an quisquam hominum non optauerit de spinis omnibus florem legere, de omni herba frugem, de muscis omnibus mel, quamuis nec muscas nec gramen in cibum nec spinas in coronae usurpemus ornatum? an quisquam nollet in omni profundo margaritam nasci, in omnibus terris gemmas, in siluis omnibus poma? ac si piscem de mari edere non nocet, aquam bibere nocet, sciuntque homines utilibus sumptis inimica respuere: nobis liberum non esset religionis cuiusque ritu damnato, si esset inutilis nobis, solas inde de Christo prophetias accipere? neque hoc prodesset erroribus ad capiendos nosmet ac redigendos in propriam seruitutem. quia nec spiritibus inmundis, cum idem Iesum esse filium dei exerte indissimulanterque confiterentur, profuit, ut minime sint nobis exosi. quare si et Moyses secundum hoc testimonium de Christo aliquid scripsit, accipiam, ita tamen, ut ipsi hoc minime prosit ad captiuandum me in propriam legem, quam nihil uideam a paganismo distare. quapropter nihil omnino est quod arbitreris, si probatum hoc fuerit, me minime gauisurum spiritum omnem prophetasse de Christo.

Tenth. Faustus said: “Why do you not accept Moses, when Christ says: ‘Moses wrote about me,’ and: ‘If you believed Moses, you would believe me too’?” For my part, I should like not only Moses to have written about Christ, but all the prophets of the Jews and of the Gentiles as well. For how would this harm our faith, or rather how would it not help it, if we gathered fitting and suitable testimonies to our God from every side? Indeed, even then we should be free, while keeping our hatred and execration of their superstition, to pick out from them only the prophecies about Christ. So it cannot be contrary to me if Moses too, although he is a stranger to Christ, should seem to have written something about Christ. Would anyone not wish to gather a flower from every thorn, grain from every plant, honey from every fly, although we do not use flies or grass for food or thorns for the ornament of a garland? Would anyone not want a pearl to grow in every deep, gems in every land, fruit in every wood? And if eating fish from the sea does no harm, while drinking its water does, and men know how to take what is useful and spit out what is hostile, should we not be free, having condemned the rite of any religion that is useless to us, to accept from it only the prophecies about Christ? Nor would this help the errors in capturing us and reducing us to their own service, since it did not help the unclean spirits, when they openly and without disguise confessed Jesus to be the Son of God, to make them in the least less hateful to us. So if Moses too wrote something about Christ, according to this testimony, I will accept it, yet in such a way that it does not help him at all in taking me captive to his own law, which I see differs in nothing from paganism. Therefore you have no reason whatever to think that, if this were proved, I should not be glad that every spirit has prophesied about Christ.

John 5:46 (quotation, high confidence) · Mark 3:11 (allusion, high confidence) · Luke 4:41 (allusion, medium confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Faustus says he would gladly accept any prophecy of Christ in Moses or elsewhere, as one takes fish from the sea, without accepting Moses' law.

  • “Tenth” is Faustus's own numbering. Faustus's view of the law of Moses as no different from paganism is his Manichaean position, translated as written.

Topics: Scripture and canon, Heresy

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 16.1 (CSEL 25.1:439–441; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-16-1). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

16.2CSEL 25.1:441–442

Tibi sane insufficientes referam gratias, si quemadmodum ostendis, quia Christus Moysen de se scripsisse testatus sit, ita etiam illud doceas, quaenam sint ea quae scripsit. nam ego quidem scripturas eius perscrutatus, ut iussum est, nullas ibidem de Christo prophetias inueni, siue quia nullae sunt, siue quia intellegere ipse non potui. unde in ingenti positus aestu ratione cogebar in alterum e duobus, ut aut falsum pronuntiarem capitulum hoc, aut mendacem Iesum. sed id quidem alienum pietatis erat deum existimare mentitum. rectius ergo uisum est scriptoribus ascribere falsitatem quam ueritatis auctori mendacium. quippe cum et ipsum dicentem audirem fures fuisse et latrones omnes, qui uenerunt ante se: qua sententia primum omnium uideo feriri Moysen. ad haec et cum maiestatem suam loquenti eidem, ubi se mundi lumen appellat, Iudaei indignantes reclamarent: quia tu de te testificaris, testimonium tuum non est uerum, non eum uideo prosecutum, ubi maxime locus exigebat, ut diceret de se prophetasse Moysen, sed tamquam reuera alienus et nullum habens ex eorum patribus testimonium respondit: nempe in lege uestra scriptum est, quia duorum hominum testimonium uerum est. ego sum qui testificor de me; et testificatur de me, qui me misit pater, illud eis commemorans, quod de caelo dictum omnes audierant: hic est filius meus dilectissimus, credite illi. necnon et illud mihi uerisimile non uidetur Iudaeos potuisse tacere, cum Christus diceret de se scripsisse Moysen, quin statim, utpote maligni et astuti, quaererent, quidnam illud esset, quod de se a Moyse scriptum putaret. sed et haec eorum omnifaria taciturnitas non minus Iesum nihil tale dixisse significat.

I shall indeed be unable to thank you enough if, just as you show that Christ testified that Moses wrote about him, you also teach me what the things are that he wrote. For I searched his scriptures, as I was told to do, and found no prophecies about Christ there, whether because there are none or because I myself could not understand them. So, placed in great perplexity, I was driven by reason to one of two conclusions: either to declare this passage false, or Jesus a liar. But it was foreign to devotion to think that God lied. It seemed more right, then, to ascribe falsehood to the writers than a lie to the author of truth. Especially since I heard him also saying that all who came before him were thieves and robbers: a sentence by which I see Moses struck first of all. Besides this, when he was speaking of his majesty and called himself the light of the world, and the Jews protested indignantly, “Because you testify about yourself, your testimony is not true,” I do not see that he went on to say, where the occasion most required it, that Moses had prophesied about him; but, as one really a stranger, having no testimony from their fathers, he answered: “Indeed in your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true. I am the one who testifies about myself, and the Father who sent me testifies about me,” reminding them of what all had heard said from heaven: “This is my most beloved Son; believe him.” Moreover, it does not seem likely to me that the Jews could have kept silent, when Christ said that Moses had written about him, without at once, malicious and cunning as they were, asking what it was that he thought Moses had written about him. But their silence on every side signifies no less that Jesus said nothing of the kind.

John 5:39 (allusion, medium confidence) · John 10:8 (quotation, high confidence) · John 8:12 (allusion, high confidence) · John 8:13 (quotation, high confidence) · John 8:17 (quotation, high confidence) · John 8:18 (quotation, high confidence) · Matt 17:5 (quotation, high confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Faustus says he found no prophecy of Christ in Moses, and so judges the saying “Moses wrote about me” to be a scribe's forgery rather than call Jesus a liar.

  • The words “believe him” are added to the voice from heaven in Faustus's quotation; the Gospels have “listen to him.”
  • Faustus's charge that the Gospels were falsified by later writers is the usual Manichaean position.

Topics: Scripture and canon, Heresy

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 16.2 (CSEL 25.1:441–442; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-16-2). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

16.3CSEL 25.1:442

Quamuis ergo et haec non parua uideantur ad confirmandam suspicionem falsi de capitulo isto, plus tamen illo teneor, quia omnem, ut dixi, Moyseos scripturam scrutatus nullas ibi de Christo prophetias inueni. nunc tamen te conpertus melioris intellegentiae lectorem consecuturum me aliquid credo acturumque fateor gratias, si spem profectus ac doctrinae, quam mihi obiurgationis tuae fiducia promittit. nulla frustreris inuidia, sed doceas, si quid est, quod me forte legentem praeterierit de deo ac de domino nostro memoratum in scriptura Moysi. nec dixeris, quaeso, ut inperiti solent, hoc ipsum satis esse debere ad fidem, quia Christus dixerit de se scripsisse Moysen. nolo enim nunc ad me respicias, quem ad credendum professio mea fecit obnoxium, ut non possim non credere ei, quem sequor; sed puta nos cum Iudaeo tractare, puta cum gentili. cum eis dixerimus "Moyses de Christo scripsit," quaesituri erunt probationes. quid offeremus? num quidnam dicere poterimus "Christus hoc dixit," cui adhuc illi minime credunt? nempe opus erit nos ipsis ostendere, quid scripserit.

So although these points too do not seem small for confirming the suspicion of falsehood about this passage, I am held more by this: that, as I said, I searched all of Moses' writing and found no prophecies about Christ there. Now, however, having found in you a reader of better understanding, I believe I shall gain something, and I confess I shall be grateful, if you do not, out of any ill will, disappoint the hope of progress and instruction which the confidence of your rebuke promises me, but teach me whether there is anything mentioned in the writing of Moses about our God and Lord which perhaps escaped me in reading. And do not, I beg you, say, as the unlearned usually do, that this itself ought to be enough for faith, that Christ said that Moses wrote about him. For I do not want you now to look at me, whom my profession has bound to believe, so that I cannot but believe him whom I follow; but suppose we are dealing with a Jew, suppose with a Gentile. When we tell them, “Moses wrote about Christ,” they will ask for proofs. What shall we offer? Shall we be able to say, “Christ said so,” when they do not yet believe him at all? Surely we shall need to show them what he wrote.

Notes and citation

Summary: Faustus asks to be shown what Moses wrote about Christ, since appeal to Christ's word would not convince a Jew or Gentile.

Notes on the original text

  • Digital text corrected (OCR: t for f): contirmandam → confirmandam.

Topics: Scripture and canon

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 16.3 (CSEL 25.1:442; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-16-3). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

16.4CSEL 25.1:442–443

Quid ergo ostendemus? an illud, quod uos soletis, ubi deus suus loquitur ad Moysen dicens: suscitabo illis prophetam de fratribus ipsorum similem tibi? sed hoc quidem ad Christum minime spectare nec Iudaeum latet nec nobis sic credere conducibile est, quia non propheta Christus nec Moysi similis propheta, si quidem ille fuerit homo, hic deus; ille peccator, hic sanctus; ille ex coitu natus, hic secundum te ex uirgine, secundum me uero nec ex uirgine; ille offenso deo suo occiditur in monte, hic patri perplacens patitur propria uoluntate. quomodo ergo ipse erit propheta similis Moysi? nempe statim nos Iudaeus aut ut inperitos ridebit aut coarguet ut mendaces.

What, then, shall we show? That passage, as you usually do, where his God speaks to Moses, saying: “I will raise up for them a prophet from among their brothers like you”? But neither does the Jew fail to see that this does not concern Christ at all, nor is it to our advantage to believe so, since Christ is not a prophet, nor a prophet like Moses: for the one was a man, the other God; the one a sinner, the other holy; the one born of intercourse, the other, according to you, of a virgin, but according to me not even of a virgin; the one is killed on the mountain, his God being offended, the other suffers of his own will, being most pleasing to the Father. How then will he be a prophet like Moses? Surely the Jew will at once either laugh at us as unlearned or refute us as liars.

Deut 18:15 (quotation, high confidence) · Deut 18:18 (allusion, high confidence) · Deut 32:50 (allusion, medium confidence) · Deut 34:5 (allusion, medium confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Faustus rejects Deuteronomy 18:15 as a prophecy of Christ, since Christ is God and holy while Moses was a man and a sinner.

  • Faustus states the Manichaean denial that Christ was born of the virgin, or born at all.
  • Moses' death on the mountain is Deut 32:48–52; 34:5.

Topics: Christology, Scripture and canon

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 16.4 (CSEL 25.1:442–443; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-16-4). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

16.5CSEL 25.1:443–444

An illud offeremus ei, quod perinde soletis inducere: uidebunt uitam suam pendentem, et non credent? cui uos quidem adicitis "in ligno:" nam non habet. sed hoc quoque probare, quod ad Christum minime pertineat, nihil tam in promptu est. inter maledictorum enim saeua, quae prompsit in populum suum, si a lege sua desciscerent, etiam hoc adiecit. futuros eosdem dicens in captiuitate hostium suorum finemque sui meditaturos diebus ac noctibus, ut nec uitae ipsius suae fiduciam gererent, quae sibi esset a uictoribus condonata, quia eadem ex incerto penderet pauens ac sollicita semper sub inminentia gladiorum. ne hoc quidem ergo ad Christum pertinet; quaerenda sunt alia. nam illud quidem uix crediderim de Christo uos dictum putare maledictum esse omnem, qui pendet in ligno, aut illud aliud interficiendum esse prophetam siue principem populi, qui eos a deo suo uellet auertere aliquidue infringere mandatorum. quod ego quidem Christum fecisse plane negare non possum. sed tu contra de ipso haec esse scripta plane fateri non poteris, ne si hoc sit, quaerere rursus incipiamus, etiam in quonam spiritu Moyses prophetauerit. ut aut malediceret Christo, aut eum iuberet occidi. si enim spiritum dei habuit, haec de Christo non dixit; si haec de Christo dixit, spiritum dei non habuit. neque enim diuinus spiritus aut malediceret Christo aut eum iuberet interfici. ut ergo Moysen ab hoc crimine uindicetis, fateamini necesse est ne haec quidem eum scripsisse de Christo. quodsi haec de Christo minime scripsit, aut alia dabitis aut nulla erunt. si nulla fuerint, nec Christus. potuit adseuerare, quod nusquam est. ita si Christus hoc minime adseuerauerit, capitulum illud falsum esse constiterit.

Or shall we offer him the passage which you likewise usually bring in: “They shall see their life hanging, and shall not believe”? To which you add “on a tree,” for it does not have that. But it is equally ready to hand to prove that this too has nothing to do with Christ. For among the cruel curses which he brought out against his people, if they fell away from his law, he added this too, saying that they would be in the captivity of their enemies and would think on their end day and night, so that they would have no confidence even in their own life, which the victors had spared them, because it would hang in uncertainty, fearful and always anxious under the threat of swords. So not even this concerns Christ; other passages must be looked for. For I would hardly believe that you think it was said of Christ that everyone is cursed who hangs on a tree, or that other saying, that a prophet or ruler of the people was to be killed who wished to turn them away from their God or to break any of the commandments. That Christ did this I certainly cannot deny. But you, on the other hand, cannot plainly admit that these things were written about him, lest, if so, we begin to ask again in what spirit Moses prophesied, so as either to curse Christ or to order him to be killed. For if he had the Spirit of God, he did not say these things about Christ; if he said these things about Christ, he did not have the Spirit of God. For the divine Spirit would neither curse Christ nor order him to be killed. So, to clear Moses of this charge, you must admit that he did not write even these things about Christ. And if he wrote these things not at all about Christ, either you will give others or there will be none. If there are none, neither could Christ assert what exists nowhere. So, if Christ did not assert it, that passage will be established as false.

Deut 28:66 (quotation, high confidence) · Deut 21:23 (allusion, high confidence) · Deut 13:5 (allusion, high confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Faustus argues that Deuteronomy 28:66 refers to Israel's captivity, and that the curses and death penalty of the law cannot be about Christ without making Moses an enemy of Christ.

  • Deut 28:66 (“your life shall hang before you”) was read by early Christians of Christ on the cross, often with “on a tree” added; Faustus notes the addition.
  • The law against a prophet who leads astray is Deut 13:1–5.

Notes on the original text

  • Digital text corrected (OCR: c for o): probare, qucd ad → probare, quod ad.

Topics: Scripture and canon, Christology

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 16.5 (CSEL 25.1:443–444; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-16-5). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

16.6CSEL 25.1:444–446

Sed nec illud quidem uerisimile est, quod prosequitur: si crederetis Moysi, crederetis et mihi, quia dissimilis admodum traditio est et longe altera Moyseos et Christi, ut si eorum alteri Iudaei crederent, alteri necessario repugnarent. nam Moyses quidem prae ceteris ab opere omni abstinendum docet in sabbato causamque inducit religionis huius hanc esse, quia deus cum mundum et quae in eo sunt omnia fabricaret, sex diebus indulserit operi, septima uero cessauerit — quod est sabbatum — idcircoque benedixerit, id est sanctificauerit, tamquam suae tranquillitatis portum legemque dederit insuper, ut qui idem solueret, occideretur. hoc igitur Iudaei uehementer credebant docente Moyse, idcircoque Christo ne aures quidem adcommodandas putabant adseueranti deum semper operari nec ullum sibi cessationis statuisse diem, quia sit iugis et infatigabilis uirtus; seque adeo idcirco numquam debere cessare, ne sabbatis quidem; pater enim, inquit, meus semper operatur et me oportet operari. item Moyses carnis peritomen in sacris et deo amabilibus numerat iubetque circumcidi masculinum omne carne praeputii ipsorum esseque hoc docet necessarium signum testamenti illius, quod deus suus disposuerit ad Abraham, adfirmatque, quod utrorum uirorum quisquis non hoc gestauerit, exterminabitur ille de tribu sua et hereditatis, quae Abrahae repromissa sit ac semini eius, non ueniet in consortium. et hoc ergo Iudaei ualde crediderant adseuerante Moyse, idcircoque fidem Christo habere non poterant infirmanti ea et insuper adseueranti, quod dupliciter gehennae filius fieret, qui esset circumcisus. item Moyses carnalium ciborum sollicitam facit discretionem et inter pisces ac uolucres et quadrupedia helluonis in modum disceptator sedet iubetque alia quidem abligurriri pro mundis, alia uero pro inmundis ne contingi quidem: quorum in parte porcum taxat et leporem et si quid in piscibus caret squama aut in quadrupedibus ungulam fissam non habet nec ruminat. haec ergo Iudaei fortiter crediderunt scribente Moyse idcircoque Christo. iam credere non poterant indifferentiam docenti ciborum et a suis quidem discipulis omnia penitus remouenti, saecularibus uero uulgo concedenti omnia, quae possent edi, atque adseueranti, quod eos nihil in os intrans pollueret, quia quae de ore inprudenter procedant, ea sola sint, quae polluant hominem. haec atque alia multa Moysi contraria Iesum dogmatizare, nemo qui nesciat.

But neither is what follows likely: “If you believed Moses, you would believe me too”; for the tradition of Moses and that of Christ are very unlike and far apart, so that if the Jews believed one of them they would necessarily resist the other. For Moses teaches above all that one must abstain from all work on the Sabbath, and gives as the reason for this observance that God, when he was making the world and all things in it, gave himself to work for six days and rested on the seventh, which is the Sabbath, and therefore blessed it, that is, sanctified it, as the haven of his rest; and moreover he gave a law that whoever broke it should be killed. This, then, the Jews firmly believed on Moses' teaching, and therefore they thought they should not even lend an ear to Christ, who asserted that God is always working and has set himself no day of rest, because his power is continual and tireless; and that he himself therefore ought never to cease, not even on Sabbaths: “For my Father,” he says, “is always working, and I must work.” Again, Moses counts circumcision of the flesh among sacred things beloved by God, and commands every male to be circumcised in the flesh of their foreskin, and teaches that this is the necessary sign of that covenant which his God made with Abraham; and he asserts that any male who does not bear it shall be cut off from his tribe and shall not come into the share of the inheritance promised to Abraham and his seed. This too, then, the Jews had firmly believed on Moses' assertion, and therefore they could not have faith in Christ, who weakened these things and asserted besides that whoever was circumcised became doubly a son of hell. Again, Moses makes an anxious distinction of fleshly foods, and sits as judge, like a glutton, among fish and birds and four-footed beasts, and orders some to be licked up as clean and others as unclean not even to be touched; among which he condemns the pig and the hare, and any fish that lacks scales, or any four-footed beast that does not have a split hoof and does not chew the cud. These things, then, the Jews firmly believed as written by Moses, and therefore they could no longer believe Christ, who taught the indifference of foods, and removed all of them entirely from his own disciples, but generally allowed to worldly people everything that could be eaten, asserting that nothing entering the mouth polluted them, because what comes out of the mouth thoughtlessly is all that pollutes a man. That Jesus taught these and many other things contrary to Moses, there is no one who does not know.

John 5:46 (quotation, high confidence) · Exod 20:8 (allusion, high confidence) · Exod 20:11 (allusion, high confidence) · Gen 2:2 (allusion, high confidence) · Gen 2:3 (allusion, high confidence) · Exod 31:14 (allusion, high confidence) · John 5:17 (quotation, high confidence) · Gen 17:10 (allusion, high confidence) · Gen 17:14 (allusion, high confidence) · Matt 23:15 (allusion, medium confidence) · Lev 11:3 (allusion, high confidence) · Lev 11:6 (allusion, high confidence) · Lev 11:7 (allusion, high confidence) · Lev 11:10 (allusion, high confidence) · Matt 15:11 (allusion, high confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Faustus argues that Christ's teaching on the Sabbath, circumcision and clean foods contradicts Moses, so that Jews who believed Moses could not believe Christ.

  • Faustus reads Matt 23:15 (“twice as much a son of hell”) as said of the circumcised; Jesus there speaks of proselytes made by the scribes and Pharisees.
  • Faustus's claim that Christ forbade all foods to his disciples reflects the Manichaean rules for the elect, not the Gospel text.
  • His description of Moses' food laws is polemical, translated as written.

Topics: Scripture and canon, Heresy

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 16.6 (CSEL 25.1:444–446; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-16-6). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

16.7CSEL 25.1:446

Quae quia singula percurrere longum est, unum pro multis ostendam, id est quia christianarum haeresium pars maxima et, quod est in promptu, catholici nihil eorum seruare curant, quae Moyses scribit. quod ipsum si non de errore descendit aliquo, sed ex uera illa Christi et discipulorum eius traditione, uos omnino fateamini necesse est, contraria inuicem sibi Iesum docuisse atque Moysen, idcircoque nec creditum Christum a Iudaeis, quia fidem uellent exhibere Moysi. quorsum ergo falsum non erit illud Iesum dixisse ad eos: si crederetis Moysi. crederetis et mihi? cum sit longe manifestum idcirco magis eos non credidisse Iesu. quia Moysi crederent, potuisse autem fidem Christo habere, si Moysi credere destitissent. tu tamen, ut dixi, ubinam Moyses de Christo aliquid scripserit, quaeso nos doceas.

Since it would take long to go through these one by one, I will show one in place of many: namely, that the greatest part of the Christian heresies, and, what is plain to see, the Catholics, take no care to keep any of the things Moses writes. If this does not come from some error but from that true tradition of Christ and his disciples, you must altogether admit that Jesus and Moses taught things contrary to each other, and that Christ was not believed by the Jews for the very reason that they wished to keep faith with Moses. How then will it not be false that Jesus said to them, “If you believed Moses, you would believe me too,” when it is quite plain that they did not believe Jesus all the more because they believed Moses, but could have had faith in Christ if they had stopped believing Moses? But, as I said, I beg you to teach us where Moses wrote anything about Christ.

John 5:46 (quotation, high confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Faustus notes that Catholics themselves keep none of the law of Moses, which shows that Christ and Moses taught contrary things.

Notes on the original text

  • Digital text corrected (OCR: legum for Iesum): illud legum dixisse → illud Iesum dixisse.

Topics: Scripture and canon, Heresy

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 16.7 (CSEL 25.1:446; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-16-7). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

16.8CSEL 25.1:446–447

Alias, inquit. si christianus es, crede dicenti Christo, quia de se scripsit Moyses; quod si non credis, christianus non es. inepta haec semper et inbecilla responsio est nihil habentium, quod ostendant. quanto igitur melius fecisses, si idem confitereris simpliciter? et tamen hoc mihi quidem dicere potuisti. quem scias necesse habere, ut credam causa religionis, qua famulor Christo, licet hoc ipsum adhuc quaeratur, utrum sit et hoc Christi testimonium, ut credi debeat absolute, an scriptoris, ut examinari sollicite. nec si nos non crediderimus falsis, Christum hinc offendimus, sed falsatores. tamen utcumque hoc ferri poterit christianis obpositum. quid autem de illis agemus, quos retuli, Iudaeo scilicet atque gentili, quibus dicere non possumus: si christianus es, crede; si non credis, christianus non es? quamquam de christiano quidem hoc rectissime dixeris, cum Christus Thomam apostolum dubitantem de se aspernatus non sit; sed quo animi eius uulneribus mederetur, corporis sui cicatrices ostendit nec dixit: si discipulus es, crede; si non credis, discipulus non es. tu mihi hoc dicas non de Christo dubitanti, sed de sententia, utrum sit eius. an subinducta. at, inquis, beatiores appellat, qui non uiderunt et crediderunt. hoc si ideo dictum putas. ut sine ratione et iudicio quidque credamus, esto tu beatior sine sensu, ego mihi contentus ero cum ratione beatus audisse.

“Otherwise,” he says, “if you are a Christian, believe Christ when he says that Moses wrote about him; and if you do not believe it, you are not a Christian.” This is always the inept and feeble reply of those who have nothing to show. How much better would you have done, then, to confess this simply? And yet you could say this to me, since you know that I am bound to believe for the sake of the religion by which I serve Christ; although the question still remains whether this too is Christ's testimony, so that it must be believed absolutely, or the writer's, so that it must be examined carefully. And if we do not believe falsehoods, we do not offend Christ by it, but the falsifiers. Still, this could be borne somehow when put to Christians. But what shall we do about those I mentioned, the Jew, that is, and the Gentile, to whom we cannot say: “If you are a Christian, believe; if you do not believe, you are not a Christian”? Even of a Christian you would not say this quite rightly, since Christ did not spurn the apostle Thomas when he doubted about him; but, to heal the wounds of his mind, he showed the scars of his body, and did not say: “If you are a disciple, believe; if you do not believe, you are not a disciple.” You say this to me, who am doubting not about Christ but about a saying, whether it is his or was slipped in. “But,” you say, “he calls those more blessed who have not seen and have believed.” If you think this was said so that we should believe anything without reason and judgment, be more blessed, you, without sense; I shall be content to have heard myself blessed with reason.

John 20:27 (allusion, high confidence) · John 20:29 (allusion, high confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Faustus rejects the reply that a Christian must believe the saying because it is in the Gospel, pointing to Christ's patience with Thomas.

Topics: Scripture and canon, Heresy

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 16.8 (CSEL 25.1:446–447; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-16-8). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

16.9CSEL 25.1:447–448

AUGUSTINUS respondit: Astute quidem paratum te dicis, si quas in libris Moysi de Christo prophetias inueneris, ita percipere, ac si piscem de mari, cum aquam ipsam unde piscis capitur, respuas. sed quia Moyses omne quod scripsit, de Christo est, id est ad Christum omnino pertinet, siue quod eum figuris rerum uel gestarum uel dictarum praenuntiet, siue quod eius gratiam gloriamque commendet, tu, qui commenticium fallacemque Christum de Manichaei litteris credidisti, ista Moysi non uis credere, sicut nec piscem uis edere. uerum hoc interest, quod Moysen hostiliter insectaris, piscem autem fallaciter laudas. si enim piscem de mari edere non nocet, sicut ipse dixisti, cur ita eum uos noxium praedicatis. ut si alia esca non occurrat, prius fame consumamini quam pisce uescamini? quid? quod si omnis caro inmunda est, ut dicitis, et in omni aqua omnique herba uita illa misera dei uestri retinetur, quae per uestra alimenta purgata est, detestabilis superstitio tua et piscem te cogit proicere, quem laudasti, et aquam marinam bibere ac spinas edere, quas uituperasti. quo uero etiam daemonibus dei famulum conparasti, ut, quales illi fuerunt, cum Christum confiterentur, talis et iste accipiatur, si aliquid in eius libris reperiri potuerit, quod praedicet Christum, ille quidem non dedignatur obprobrium domini sui. si enim paterfamilias Beelzebub appellatus est, quanto magis domestici eius! sed uos uidete, a quibus ista didiceritis, profecto sceleratiores quam illi, qui domino ita conuiciati sunt. illi enim non eum Christum esse credebant et ideo fallacem putabant; uos autem doctrinam non putatis esse ueracem, nisi quae Christum audet praedicare fallacem.

Augustine replied: You say cunningly that you are ready, if you find any prophecies about Christ in the books of Moses, to take them as you would a fish from the sea while spitting out the very water from which the fish is caught. But since everything Moses wrote is about Christ, that is, wholly concerns Christ, whether it foretells him by figures of things done or said, or commends his grace and glory, you, who have believed a fictitious and deceitful Christ from Mani's writings, will not believe these things of Moses, just as you will not eat fish. But there is this difference: that you pursue Moses with hostility, while you praise fish deceitfully. For if eating fish from the sea does no harm, as you yourself said, why do you proclaim it so harmful that, if no other food is at hand, you would rather waste away with hunger than eat fish? What then? If all flesh is unclean, as you say, and that wretched life of your god, which is purified through your food, is held fast in all water and every plant, your detestable superstition compels you both to throw away the fish which you praised, and to drink sea water and eat thorns, which you found fault with. And as for your comparing the servant of God with the demons, so that he should be regarded as they were when they confessed Christ, if anything could be found in his books that preaches Christ, he does not disdain his Lord's reproach. For if the householder was called Beelzebub, how much more the members of his household! But consider from whom you have learned these things, surely men more wicked than those who so reviled the Lord. For they did not believe that he was the Christ, and therefore thought him a deceiver; but you do not think a doctrine truthful unless it dares to proclaim Christ a deceiver.

Matt 10:25 (quotation, high confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Augustine replies that everything Moses wrote concerns Christ, and turns Faustus's image of fish and sea water against Manichaean food laws.

  • The Manichaean elect abstained from all meat, including fish; Augustine turns Faustus's example against him.

Topics: Scripture and canon, Heresy, Christology

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 16.9 (CSEL 25.1:447–448; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-16-9). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

16.10CSEL 25.1:448–449

Unde autem tibi uidetur legem Moysi nihil a paganismo distare? an quia templum, sacrificium, altare sacerdotemque commendat? at haec omnia nomina et in nouo testamento reperiuntur. soluite, inquit, templum hoc, et in triduo resuscitabo illud et: cum offers munus tuum ad altare et: uade, ostende te sacerdoti et offer pro te sacrificium, quod praecepit Moyses, in testimonium illis. quorum autem figurae fuerint istae, partim dominus ipse demonstrat, cum templum corporis sui templo illi conparat, partim apostolica doctrina cognoscimus; templum enim dei sanctum est, ait apostolus, quod estis uos et: obsecro itaque uos per misericordiam dei, ut exhibeatis corpora uestra hostiam uiuam, sanctam, deo placentem et cetera huiusmodi. proinde illa omnia figurae nostrae fuerunt, sicut idem dicit et saepe commemorandum est, quia non daemoniis exhibebantur, sed uni uero deo, qui fecit caelum et terram, non tamquam indigenti talibus, sed tempora distinguenti et iubenti praesentia, per quae significaret futura. uos autem, qui ut seducatis et decipiatis idiotas inperfectosque christianos, paganismum uos fingitis detestari, edite nobis auctoritatem christianorum librorum, in quibus uobis solem ac lunam colere atque adorare praeceptum sit. uester ergo potius error paganismo similis est. quandoquidem nec Christum colitis. sed Christi nomine nescio quid, quod uobis mentiendo finxistis, et deos uel in isto conspicuo caelo uisibiles uel alios innumerabiles conmenticios adoratis. quibus phantasmatis quasi uanis atque inanibus simulacris non aediculas fabricastis, sed corda uestra templa fecistis.

But why does the law of Moses seem to you to differ in nothing from paganism? Because it commends a temple, a sacrifice, an altar and a priest? But all these names are found in the New Testament too: “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up,” and: “When you offer your gift at the altar,” and: “Go, show yourself to the priest, and offer for yourself the sacrifice that Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.” And of what things these were figures, the Lord himself partly shows, when he compares the temple of his body to that temple, and partly we learn from the apostolic teaching; for “the temple of God is holy,” says the apostle, “which you are,” and: “I beseech you, therefore, by the mercy of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God,” and other things of this kind. So all those things were figures of us, as the same apostle says, and as must often be recalled, because they were offered not to demons but to the one true God who made heaven and earth; not as to one who needed such things, but as to one who distinguishes the times and commands present things through which to signify future ones. But you, who, to lead astray and deceive simple and imperfect Christians, pretend to detest paganism, produce for us the authority of Christian books in which you are commanded to revere and worship the sun and moon. It is your error, then, that is rather like paganism, since you do not even worship Christ, but under Christ's name something or other which you have invented for yourselves by lying, and you worship gods, either those visible in this sky we see or countless other fictitious ones. For these phantoms, as for empty and hollow images, you have not built shrines, but have made your hearts their temples.

John 2:19 (quotation, high confidence) · John 2:21 (allusion, high confidence) · Matt 5:23 (quotation, high confidence) · Matt 8:4 (quotation, high confidence) · Mark 1:44 (allusion, medium confidence) · 1 Cor 3:17 (quotation, high confidence) · Rom 12:1 (quotation, high confidence) · 1 Cor 10:6 (allusion, high confidence) · 1 Cor 10:11 (allusion, medium confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Augustine answers that temple, altar, priest and sacrifice appear in the New Testament too, as figures fulfilled in Christ and the church, while the Manichaeans' worship of the sun and moon is the true likeness to paganism.

Notes on the original text

  • Digital text corrected (OCR: a for u): christianoram → christianorum.

Topics: Scripture and canon, Heresy

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 16.10 (CSEL 25.1:448–449; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-16-10). (abbreviation not yet checked)

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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

16.11CSEL 25.1:449–450

Exigis a me, ut ostendam, quaenam scripserit de Christo Moyses. iam quidem superius multa demonstrata sunt, sed quis possit omnia demonstrare? praesertim quia, si quaedam commemorem, paratus uidetur iste peruersus uel in alium sensum ea conari peruertere uel, si fuerit euidentia clarioris ueritatis obpressus, dicere se illa tamquam de mari salso suauem piscem capere nec ideo se ad totam scripturam Moyseos uelut ad aquam marinam bibendam cogi oportere. quapropter sufficere arbitror huic operi, ut ea ipsa, quae reprehendenda secerpsit de scriptura legis Hebraeorum. ad Christum praedicandum pertinere, si recte intellegantur. ostendam: ex quo satis adpareat multo magis cetera uel statim pronuntiata uel diligenter ac ueraciter perscrutata christianae fidei conuenire, si ea, quae deridenda atque damnanda obicit inimicus, eis ipsis conuincatur christiana ueritate damnandus. quapropter, o plene omni fallacia, cum dominus in euangelio dixerit: si crederetis Moysi, crederetis et mihi; de me enim ille scripsit. nihil est, quod te in ingenti aestu positum fingas et cogi uidearis in alterum e duobus. ut aut falsum pronunties capitulum hoc aut mendacem Iesum. sicut enim hoc capitulum uerum est, ita et uerax est Iesus. rectius uisum est, inquit, scriptoribus ascribere falsitatem quam ueritatis auctori mendacium. itane tu Christum credis ueritatis auctorem, quem praedicas carnis et mortis et uulnerum et cicatricum simulatorem? uolo mihi ostendas. unde auctorem ueritatis didiceris Christum, si eis, qui de illo scripserunt, quorum auctoritas recenti memoria commendata atque firmata in posteros emanauit. audes adscribere falsitatem. non enim uidisti Christum, aut quemadmodum cum apostolis locutus est tecum, aut de caelo te sicut Saulum uocauit. quid de illo sentire, quid credere possumus. nisi quod scriptura testatur? porro si mendax est euangelium disseminatum et notum omnibus gentibus et ab initio praedicationis nominis Christi in ecclesiis omnibus in tanto sanctitatis culmine conlocatum, quae scriptura proferri potest, cui de Christo fides habenda sit? quid poteris proferre scriptum, quod non ille, qui hoc non uult credere, dicat esse confictum. si tanta euangelii notitia uenit in dubium?

You demand that I show what Moses wrote about Christ. Much has already been shown above; but who could show it all? Especially since, if I mention some things, this perverse man seems ready either to try to twist them into another sense or, if he is overwhelmed by the evidence of a clearer truth, to say that he takes them like a sweet fish from the salt sea and so ought not to be compelled to accept the whole writing of Moses, as if to drink the sea water. So I think it enough for this work to show that the very things he has picked out for blame from the writing of the law of the Hebrews concern the preaching of Christ, if rightly understood. From this it will be plain enough that the rest, whether immediately declared or carefully and truthfully examined, agree much more with the Christian faith, if the enemy is shown to be condemned by Christian truth from the very things he puts forward to be mocked and condemned. Therefore, you who are full of every deceit, since the Lord said in the gospel, “If you believed Moses, you would believe me too, for he wrote about me,” there is no reason for you to pretend that you were placed in great perplexity and seem driven to one of two conclusions, either to declare this passage false or Jesus a liar. For as this passage is true, so too Jesus is truthful. “It seemed more right,” he says, “to ascribe falsehood to the writers than a lie to the author of truth.” Do you really believe Christ to be the author of truth, whom you proclaim a feigner of flesh and death and wounds and scars? I want you to show me where you learned that Christ is the author of truth, if you dare to ascribe falsehood to those who wrote about him, whose authority, commended and confirmed by recent memory, has flowed down to later generations. For you have not seen Christ, nor has he spoken with you as with the apostles, nor called you from heaven as he did Saul. What can we think, what can we believe about him, except what scripture testifies? Further, if the gospel is lying, which has been spread and made known to all nations, and from the beginning of the preaching of Christ's name has been set in so high a place of holiness in all the churches, what writing can be produced in which faith is to be had about Christ? What writing could you bring forward which a man who did not want to believe it would not say was forged, if such widespread knowledge of the gospel comes into doubt?

John 5:46 (quotation, high confidence) · Acts 9:4 (allusion, high confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Augustine undertakes to show that the very passages Faustus attacks foretell Christ, and argues that if the gospel is called falsified, nothing can be known of Christ at all.

Topics: Scripture and canon, Heresy

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 16.11 (CSEL 25.1:449–450; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-16-11). (abbreviation not yet checked)

BibTeX · RIS (whole work; this passage's key: sophiascriptura-augustine-contra-faustum-16-11) · Report an error

Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).

16.12CSEL 25.1:450–452

Deinde subiungis ipsum te audisse dicentem fures fuisse et latrones omnes, qui uenerunt ante se. unde illum audisti hoc dicentem nisi ex euangelio? at si hoc. quod ita credis ex euangelio, ut tamquam ex ore domini audisse te dicas. alius falsum esse contendat atque hoc dixisse Christum neget. quo ibis? quid facies? nonne euangelicam auctoritatem quantis potueris uiribus praedicabis? miser, illic scriptum est, quod non uis credere, ubi didicisti quod ita credis, ut hoc te ab ipso Christo dicas audisse. ecce nos utrumque credimus, quia euangelio sancto credimus, ubi utrumque scriptum est: et de Christo scripsisse Moysen et omnes, qui ante Christum uenerunt, fures fuisse et latrones. uenisse quippe ita uult intellegi, quia missi non sunt; nam qui missi sunt, sicut Moyses et sancti prophetae, non ante ipsum, sed cum ipso uenerunt, quia non eum per superbiam praecedere noluerunt, sed eum per ipsos loquentem humiliter portauerunt. uos autem, qui haec uerba domini sic intellegitis, secundum uestrum intellectum satis confitemini nullos uos habere prophetas, qui uenturum Christum prophetauerunt, et ideo uobis eum sicut uoluistis, ita finxistis. nam si aliqui sunt uestri. quibus quidem propterea fides habenda non est, quia nonnisi a uobis proferuntur, tamen si aliqui sunt, quos dicere audeatis prophetasse Christum falsa carne uenturum, falsa morte passurum, falsas cicatrices dubitantibus discipulis oblaturum, non dico ex hoc ipso, quam sint detestandi atque fugiendi, quamque non possint esse ueraces, quibus de mendacio Christus placet: ut hoc non dicam, certe ut dicere coeperam, secundum istum intellectum uestrum fures fuerunt et latrones, quoniam ante Christum uenerunt, qui eum uenturum quoquo modo praedicauerunt. porro si ille intellectus est uerus, ut ipsi ante Christum uenisse dicantur, qui cum Christo, id est cum uerbo dei uenire noluerunt, sed cum eos non miserit deus, mendacia sua hominibus adtulerunt: uos quoque ipsi. quamuis post Christi passionem et resurrectionem in hoc mundo nati fueritis, fures et latrones estis, quia, priusquam uos ipse inluminaret. ut ueritatem ipsius praedicaretis, eum anteuenire uoluistis, ut uestram fallaciam iactaretis.

Next you add that you heard him saying that all who came before him were thieves and robbers. Where did you hear him say this, if not from the gospel? But if someone else were to contend that this, which you believe from the gospel so firmly that you say you heard it as from the Lord's mouth, is false, and were to deny that Christ said it, where will you go? What will you do? Will you not proclaim the authority of the gospel with all the strength you can? Wretched man, what you do not want to believe is written in the same place where you learned what you believe so firmly that you say you heard it from Christ himself. See, we believe both, because we believe the holy gospel, where both are written: both that Moses wrote about Christ, and that all who came before Christ were thieves and robbers. For he wants “came” to be understood as meaning that they were not sent; for those who were sent, like Moses and the holy prophets, did not come before him but with him, since they did not wish to go before him in pride, but humbly carried him speaking through them. But you, who understand these words of the Lord in this way, sufficiently admit, on your understanding, that you have no prophets who prophesied that Christ would come, and therefore you have invented him for yourselves as you wished. For if you have any, who are not to be believed in any case, because they are produced only by you, yet if there are any whom you dare to say prophesied that Christ would come in false flesh, suffer a false death, and offer false scars to doubting disciples (I do not say how detestable and to be shunned they are by this very fact, and how they cannot be truthful, who are pleased with Christ for his lying), not to say this, certainly, as I had begun to say, on this understanding of yours they were thieves and robbers, since they came before Christ, whoever preached in any way that he would come. Further, if the true understanding is that those are said to have come before Christ who would not come with Christ, that is, with the Word of God, but, though God did not send them, brought their own lies to men, then you yourselves too, although you were born into this world after Christ's passion and resurrection, are thieves and robbers, because before he enlightened you to preach his truth, you wished to come before him in order to boast of your own deceit.

John 10:8 (quotation, high confidence) · John 5:46 (allusion, high confidence) · John 20:27 (allusion, medium confidence) · Jer 23:21 (allusion, low confidence)

Notes and citation

Summary: Augustine replies that the Gospel which says “all who came before me were thieves” also says Moses wrote of Christ, and that “came before” means came unsent, as the Manichaeans did, not like Moses and the prophets.

Topics: Scripture and canon, Heresy

Cite (SBL): Augustine, C. Faust. 16.12 (CSEL 25.1:450–452; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/fathers/augustine-contra-faustum/15-9/#p-16-12). (abbreviation not yet checked)

BibTeX · RIS (whole work; this passage's key: sophiascriptura-augustine-contra-faustum-16-12) · Report an error

Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Latin of Zycha (CSEL 25.1, 1891); each batch compared afterwards with the public-domain translation of R. Stothert in NPNF¹ 4 (1887).