Eranistes (The Beggar), or Polymorphus 1.1–1.8
Greek text: PG 83.English: Claude (claude-opus-5-5), public domain (CC0).
Chapter 1
1.1PG 83
μὲν ἦν συμφωνεῖν ἡμᾶς, καὶ τὴν ἀποστολικὴν διδασκαλίαν φυλάττειν ἀκὴρατον. Ἐπειδὴ δὲ οὐκ οἶδ᾽ ἀνθ᾽ ὅτου τὴν ὁμόνοιαν διαλύσαντες, καινὰ νῦν ἡμῖν προδάλλεσθε δόγματα, δίχα. τινὸς ἔριδος, εἰ δοκεῖ, κοινῇ ζητήσωμεν τὴν ἀλή-. θειαν. ΕΡΑΝ. Ἡμεῖς ζητήσεως οὐ δεόμεθα" ἀχριδῶς γὰρ τῆς ἀληθείας ἐχόμεθα. ΟΡΘ. Τοῦτο καὶ τῶν αἱρετιχῶν ὑπείληφεν ἔχαστοςκαὶ μέντοι καὶ Ἰουδαῖοι, καὶ Ἕλληνες, τῶν τῆς ἀληθείας δογμάτων προστατεύειν νομίζουσιν" καὶ οὐ μόνοι γε οἱ τὰ Πλάτωνος καὶ Πυθαγόρου θρησκεύοντες, ἀλλὰ καὶ οἱ τῆς ᾿Ἐπικούρου συμμορίας, καὶ οἱ πάμπαν ἄθεοι καὶ ἀδόξαστοι. Ἡροσήχει δὲ μὴ προλήψει δουλεύειν, ἀλλὰ τὴν ἀληθῆ γνῶσιν ἐπιζη- πεῖν. ΕΡΑΝ. Πείθομαι τῇ παραινέσει, καὶ δέχομαι τὴν. ΟΡΘ. Ἐπειδὴ τοίνυν τὴν προτέραν εὐπειθῶς ἐδέξω. παράκλησιν, ἀξιῶ ὁς πάλιν, μὴ λογισμοῖς ἀνθρωπίνοις ἐπιτρέψαι τῆς ἀληθείας τὴν ἔρευναν, ἀλλὰ τῶν ἀποστόλων, καὶ προφητῶν, καὶ τῶν μετ᾽ ἐκείνους ἁγίων ἐπιζητῆσαι τὰ ἴχνη. Τοῦτο γὰρ καὶ ᾿ ποῖς ὁδοιπόροις φίλον ποιεῖν, ὅταν ἐχτραπῶσι τῆς λεωφόρου, καὶ τὰς ἀτραποὺς διασχοπεῖν, εἴ τινων ἀπιόντων ἣ ἐρχομένων ἔχουσι τύπους ποδῶν, ἣ ἀνθρώπων, ἣ ἵππων, ἢ ὄνων, ἢ ἡμιόνων" καὶ ὅταν εὕρωσι, κατὰ τοὺς κύνας ἰχνηλατοῦσι, καὶ οὐ πρότερον ἀφιᾶσιν, ἕως ἂν τὴν εὐθεῖαν ὁδὸν ἀπολάθωσιν. Εἰ θα 5," δὴ ἄρξας τοῦ λόγου. ΟΡΘ. Οὐκοῦν περὶ τῶν. θείων ὀνομάτων, οὐσίας φημὶ, καὶ ὑποστάσεων, καὶ προσώπων, καὶ ἰδιοτήτων, διευχρινησώμεθα πρότερον, καὶ γνῶμεν καὶ ὀρισώμεθα τίνα ἔχει πρὸς ἄλληλα διαφοράν" εἶθ᾽ οὕτω λοιπὸν ἀψώμεθα τῶν ἑξῆς. ΕΡΑΝ. Κάλλιστον καὶ ἀναγκαιότατον ἔδωκας τῷ λόγῳ τὸ προοίμιον. Τούτων γὰρ εὐχρινῶν γενομένων. ΟΡΘ. Ἐπειδὴ τοίνυν ἄρα καὶ συγεψηφισάμεϑα δὲ, ταῦθ᾽ οὕτω χρῆναι γενέσθαι, ἀπόκριναι, ὦ φιλότης. Τοῦ Θεοῦ, καὶ Πατρὸς, καὶ τοῦ μονογενοῦς Υἱοῦ, καὶ τοῦ παναγίου Ἠνεύματος, μίαν οὐσίαν φαμὲν, ὡς παρὰ τῆς θείας Γραφῆς ἐδιδάχθημεν παλαιᾶς τε καὶ νέας, καὶ τῶν ἐν Νικαίᾳ συνεληλυθότων Πατέρων, ἣ ταῖς ᾿'Δρείου βλασφημίαις ἀχολουθοῦμεν: ΕΡΑΝ. Μίαν ὁμολογοῦμεν τῆς ἁγίας Τριάδος οὐσίαν. ΟΡΘ. Τὴν δὲ ὑπόστασιν, ἄλλο τι παρὰ τὴν οὐσίαν σημαίνειν νομίζομεν, ἣ τῆς οὐσίας ἕτερον ὑπειλήφαμεν ὄνομα; ΕΡΑΝ. Ἔχει τινὰ διαφορὰν ἡ οὐσία πρὸς τὴν ᾿ὑπόστασιν - ΟΡΘ. Κατὰ μὲν τὴν θύραϑεν σοφίαν, οὐκ ἔχει. Ἢ ᾽χε γὰρ οὐσία τὸ ὃν σημαίνει, καὶ τὸ ὑφεστὸς ἡ ὑπότα 5 δ Ὁ- “στασις. Κατὰ δέ γε τὴν τῶν Πατέρων διδασκαλίαν, ἣν ἔχει διαφορὰν τὸ κοινὸν ὑπὲρ τὸ ἴδιον, ἣ τὸ γένος ὑπὲρ τὸ εἶδος ἢ τὸ ἄταμον, ταύτην ἡ οὐσία πρὸς τὴν ἜΡΑΝ. Σαφέστερον τὰ περὶ τοῦ γένους καὶ εἴ- 'δους καὶ τοῦ ἀτόμου εἰπέ. ΟΡΘ. Γένος καλοῦμεν τὸ ζῶον ᾿ πολλὰ γὰρ σημαίνει κατὰ ταὐτόν. Δηλοῖ γὰρ καὶ τὸ λογικὸν, καὶ πὸ ἄλογον" καὶ αὖ πάλιν τῶν ἀλόγων εἴδη πολλὰ, τὰ μὲν πτηνὰ, τὰ δὲ ἀμφίδια, τὰ δὲ πεζὰ, τὰ δὲ νηκτά. Καὶ τούτων δὲ ἕχαστον εἰς πο)λὰ διαιρεῖται. Τῶν γὰρ πεζῶν ἄλλο μὲν ἔστι λέων, ἄλλο δὲ πάρδαλις, ἄλλο δὲ ταῦρος, καὶ μυρία ἕτερα. Οὕτω καὶ τῶν πτηνῶν, καὶ τῶν ἄλλων δἴδη πολλά “ ἀλλ᾽ ὅμως τούτῶν ἁπάντων γένος ἐστὶ τὸ ζῶον, εἴδη δὲ τὰ προλελεγμένα. Οὕτω τὸ ἄνθρωπος ὄνομα κοινόν ἐστι ταύτησὶ τῆς φύσεως ὄνομα. Σημαίνει γὰρ καὶ τὸν Ῥωμαῖον, καὶ τὸν ᾿Αθηναῖον, καὶ τὸν Πέρσην, καὶ τὸν Σαυρομάτην, καὶ τὸν Αἰγύπτιον, καὶ συλλήδδην εἰπεῖν, ἅπαντας ὅσος ταύτης χοινωνηῦσι τῆς φύσεως. Τὸ δέ γε Παῦλος ἢ Πέτρος ὄνομα οὐκέτι τὸ κοινὸν σημαίνει τῆς φύσεως, ἀλλὰ τόν τινα ἄνθρωπον. Οὐδεὶς γὰρ τὸν Παῦλον ἀκούσας, εἰς τὸν ᾿Αδὰμ, καὶ τὸν ᾿Αδραὰμ, καὶ τὸν Ἰαχὼδ ἀνέδραμε τῷ λογισμῷ, ἀλλὰ τοῦτον μόνον ἐνόησεν, οὗ καὶ τῆς προσηγορίας κατήκουσε. Τὸν μέντοι ἄνθρωπον ἁπλῶς ἀκούσας, οὐκ εἰς τὸ ἄτομον ἀπερείδει τὸν νοῦν, ἀλλὰ καὶ τὸν Ἰνδὸν, καὶ τὸν Σκύθην, καὶ τὸν Μασσαγέτὴν, καὶ ἀπαξαπλῶς πᾶν γένος ἀνθρώπων λογίζεται. Καὶ τοῦτο ἡμᾶς οὐκ ἣ φύσις μόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἡ θεία διδάσκει Γραφή. Εἶπε γὰρ ὁ Θεὸς, φησὶν, « ᾿Απαλείψω τὸν ἄνθρωπον ὃν ἔπλασα ἀπὸ προσώπου τῆς γῆς. » Τοῦτο δὲ περὶ παμπόλλων εἴρηκε μυριάδων. Πλειόνων γὰρ ἣ δισχιλίων καὶ διακοσίων μετὰ τὸν ᾿Αδὰμ διεληλυθότων ἐτῶν, τὴν διὰ τοῦ χαταχλυ- 'ἱ σμοῦ πανωλεθρίαν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ἐπήνεγκεν. Οὕτω καὶ ὁ μακάριος λέγει Δαδίδ" ε« "Ανθρωπος ἕν τιμῇ ὧν οὐ συνῆκεν,» οὐ τοῦ δεῖνος, ἣ τοῦ δεῖνος, ἀλλὰ κοινῇ πάντων ἀνθρώπων κατηγορῶν. Καὶ μυρία τοιαῦτα ἔστιν εὑρεῖν, ἀλλ᾽ οὐ χρὴ μηκύνειν,
men ēn symphōnein hēmas, kai tēn apostolikēn didaskalian phylattein akēraton. Epeidē de ouk oid᾽ anth᾽ hotou tēn homonoian dialysantes, kaina nyn hēmin prodallesthe dogmata, dicha. tinos eridos, ei dokei, koinę̄ zētēsōmen tēn alē-. theian. ERAN. Hēmeis zētēseōs ou deometha" achridōs gar tēs alētheias echometha. ORTh. Touto kai tōn hairetichōn hypeilēphen echastoskai mentoi kai Ioudaioi, kai Hellēnes, tōn tēs alētheias dogmatōn prostateuein nomizousin" kai ou monoi ge hoi ta Platōnos kai Pythagorou thrēskeuontes, alla kai hoi tēs ᾿Epikourou symmorias, kai hoi pampan atheoi kai adoxastoi. Hērosēchei de mē prolēpsei douleuein, alla tēn alēthē gnōsin epizē- pein. ERAN. Peithomai tę̄ parainesei, kai dechomai tēn. ORTh. Epeidē toinyn tēn proteran eupeithōs edexō. paraklēsin, axiō hos palin, mē logismois anthrōpinois epitrepsai tēs alētheias tēn ereunan, alla tōn apostolōn, kai prophētōn, kai tōn met᾽ ekeinous hagiōn epizētēsai ta ichnē. Touto gar kai ᾿ pois hodoiporois philon poiein, hotan echtrapōsi tēs leōphorou, kai tas atrapous diaschopein, ei tinōn apiontōn hē erchomenōn echousi typous podōn, hē anthrōpōn, hē hippōn, ē onōn, ē hēmionōn" kai hotan heurōsi, kata tous kynas ichnēlatousi, kai ou proteron aphiasin, heōs an tēn eutheian hodon apolathōsin. Ei tha 5," dē arxas tou logou. ORTh. Oukoun peri tōn. theiōn onomatōn, ousias phēmi, kai hypostaseōn, kai prosōpōn, kai idiotētōn, dieuchrinēsōmetha proteron, kai gnōmen kai orisōmetha tina echei pros allēla diaphoran" eith᾽ houtō loipon apsōmetha tōn hexēs. ERAN. Kalliston kai anankaiotaton edōkas tǭ logǭ to prooimion. Toutōn gar euchrinōn genomenōn. ORTh. Epeidē toinyn ara kai sygepsēphisameϑa de, tauth᾽ houtō chrēnai genesthai, apokrinai, ō philotēs. Tou Theou, kai Patros, kai tou monogenous Huiou, kai tou panagiou Ēneumatos, mian ousian phamen, hōs para tēs theias Graphēs edidachthēmen palaias te kai neas, kai tōn en Nikaią synelēlythotōn Paterōn, hē tais ᾿'Dreiou blasphēmiais acholouthoumen: ERAN. Mian homologoumen tēs hagias Triados ousian. ORTh. Tēn de hypostasin, allo ti para tēn ousian sēmainein nomizomen, hē tēs ousias heteron hypeilēphamen onoma? ERAN. Echei tina diaphoran hē ousia pros tēn ᾿hypostasin - ORTh. Kata men tēn thyraϑen sophian, ouk echei. Ē ᾽che gar ousia to hon sēmainei, kai to hyphestos hē hypota 5 d Ho- “stasis. Kata de ge tēn tōn Paterōn didaskalian, hēn echei diaphoran to koinon hyper to idion, hē to genos hyper to eidos ē to atamon, tautēn hē ousia pros tēn ERAN. Saphesteron ta peri tou genous kai ei- 'dous kai tou atomou eipe. ORTh. Genos kaloumen to zōon ᾿ polla gar sēmainei kata tauton. Dēloi gar kai to logikon, kai po alogon" kai au palin tōn alogōn eidē polla, ta men ptēna, ta de amphidia, ta de peza, ta de nēkta. Kai toutōn de hechaston eis po)la diaireitai. Tōn gar pezōn allo men esti leōn, allo de pardalis, allo de tauros, kai myria hetera. Houtō kai tōn ptēnōn, kai tōn allōn didē polla “ all᾽ homōs toutōn hapantōn genos esti to zōon, eidē de ta prolelegmena. Houtō to anthrōpos onoma koinon esti tautēsi tēs physeōs onoma. Sēmainei gar kai ton Rhōmaion, kai ton ᾿Athēnaion, kai ton Persēn, kai ton Sauromatēn, kai ton Aigyption, kai syllēddēn eipein, hapantas hosos tautēs choinōnēusi tēs physeōs. To de ge Paulos ē Petros onoma ouketi to koinon sēmainei tēs physeōs, alla ton tina anthrōpon. Oudeis gar ton Paulon akousas, eis ton ᾿Adam, kai ton ᾿Adraam, kai ton Iachōd anedrame tǭ logismǭ, alla touton monon enoēsen, hou kai tēs prosēgorias katēkouse. Ton mentoi anthrōpon haplōs akousas, ouk eis to atomon apereidei ton noun, alla kai ton Indon, kai ton Skythēn, kai ton Massagetēn, kai apaxaplōs pan genos anthrōpōn logizetai. Kai touto hēmas ouk hē physis monon, alla kai hē theia didaskei Graphē. Eipe gar ho Theos, phēsin, « ᾿Apaleipsō ton anthrōpon hon eplasa apo prosōpou tēs gēs. » Touto de peri pampollōn eirēke myriadōn. Pleionōn gar hē dischiliōn kai diakosiōn meta ton ᾿Adam dielēlythotōn etōn, tēn dia tou chatachly- 'hi smou panōlethrian tois anthrōpois epēnenken. Houtō kai ho makarios legei Dadid" e« "Anthrōpos hen timę̄ hōn ou synēken,» ou tou deinos, hē tou deinos, alla koinę̄ pantōn anthrōpōn katēgorōn. Kai myria toiauta estin heurein, all᾽ ou chrē mēkynein,
… [it would have been right] for us to agree, and to keep the apostolic teaching undefiled. But since, for some reason I do not know, you have broken the concord and now put forward new doctrines to us, let us, if you agree, seek the truth together without any strife. Eranistes: We have no need of inquiry, for we hold the truth exactly. Orthodoxos: Every one of the heretics has assumed this too; and indeed Jews and Greeks think they are champions of the doctrines of truth, and not only those who revere the teachings of Plato and Pythagoras, but also those of Epicurus's band, and those who are utterly godless and hold no belief at all. One ought not to be a slave to prejudice, but to seek the true knowledge. Eranistes: I am persuaded by the exhortation, and I accept the … Orthodoxos: Since, then, you readily accepted the first appeal, I ask you again not to entrust the search for the truth to human reasonings, but to seek out the footprints of the apostles and prophets and of the saints after them. For this is what travellers like to do when they have strayed from the highway: they examine the paths to see whether they bear footprints of any who have gone or come, of men, or horses, or asses, or mules; and when they find them, they track them like dogs, and do not let go until they recover the straight road. … beginning the discussion. Orthodoxos: Then let us first clarify the divine names (I mean substance, and hypostases, and persons, and properties), and know and define what difference they have from one another; and so then let us take up what follows. Eranistes: You have given the discussion a most excellent and most necessary preface. For when these are made clear, … Orthodoxos: Since, then, we have agreed that this must be done, answer, my friend. Do we say that God the Father, and the only-begotten Son, and the all-holy Spirit have one substance, as we were taught by the divine Scripture, both Old and New, and by the Fathers who assembled at Nicaea, or do we follow the blasphemies of Arius? Eranistes: We confess one substance of the holy Trinity. Orthodoxos: And do we think that hypostasis signifies something other than substance, or have we taken it to be another name for substance? Eranistes: Does substance have some difference from hypostasis? Orthodoxos: According to the wisdom from outside it has none; for substance signifies what is, and hypostasis what subsists. But according to the teaching of the Fathers, … the difference that the common has over against the particular, or the genus over against the species or the individual, is the difference that substance has with respect to hypostasis. Eranistes: Speak more clearly about genus and species and individual. Orthodoxos: We call “living being” a genus, for it signifies many things at once. It denotes both the rational and the irrational; and again there are many species of irrational beings: some winged, some amphibious, some that walk, some that swim. And each of these is divided into many: of those that walk, one is a lion, another a leopard, another a bull, and countless others. So too of the winged and of the others there are many species; yet of all these the genus is “living being,” and the species are those already named. So the name “human being” is a name common to this nature. For it signifies the Roman, the Athenian, the Persian, the Sarmatian, and the Egyptian, and in short all who share in this nature. But the name “Paul” or “Peter” no longer signifies what is common to the nature, but a particular human being. For no one who hears “Paul” runs in thought to Adam and Abraham and Jacob, but he thinks of this one alone whose name he heard. But one who hears simply “human being” does not fix his mind on the individual, but reckons with the Indian, the Scythian, the Massagete, and in a word every race of human beings. And not only nature teaches us this, but also the divine Scripture. For God said, it says, “I will wipe out the human being whom I formed from the face of the earth.” He said this of very many myriads; for more than two thousand two hundred years had passed after Adam when he brought the total destruction of the flood upon human beings. So too blessed David says, “A human being, being in honor, did not understand,” accusing not this one or that one but … the nature common to all human beings. And countless such things can be found, but one need not draw it out.
Gen 6:7 (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 49:12 (48:13 LXX) (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: Orthodoxos invites Eranistes to seek the truth in the footsteps of the apostles and Fathers, and begins by defining substance and hypostasis as the common and the particular, as genus differs from individual.
- Speakers: Eranistes (the 'beggar' or 'collector', who has gathered his opinions from many heresies) and Orthodoxos. The opening of the work (Theodoret's prologue and the first lines of the dialogue) is lost in the OCR text used here; the passage begins in mid-sentence. Several further lines dropped out of the OCR where '…' is printed (e.g. after 'I accept the', in the transition to the discussion of the divine names, and before 'the nature common'); nothing has been supplied. Columns of Migne's Latin translation and marginal notes that the OCR read as Greek letters have been removed (logged corrections). Quotations: Gen 6:7; Ps 49:12 (LXX 48:13). 'Wisdom from outside' is the usual Christian term for pagan philosophy.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (Migne's Latin column read as Greek letters; Migne's Latin notes read as Greek letters; OCR debris from Migne's Latin column): γἱἃ-δαϊ γοκαὶ → καὶ; ᾳυοὰ εϑὶ βρη! εραὶ, οἱ ἰὰ αυοὰ 5υλείϑι1 ὁδὶ ἡψροδία- “ → ; | χ. εἴδ. Εκ οὐϊι. ἤομ). οἱ [ϊρ5. ᾿πβογίυ ηι. 44. Αἱ οἰ 68. εἶς Νοϑβίοσ, αυκϑί. 47 ἐμ ὅθ. Ὑἱά. τ. 1, ρ. 60. 564 τω. βου ποῖα → ; Ομ 6 οδί “πὶ ουθ, ϑρὶ εἰ πὶ 528 οἱ Ῥὰ- ΟἈΤΗ. ϑρί για γοοᾶνὶϊ οἱ Ραίγεμῃ οἱ ΕἸ απ, αἱ Βα οί υ 180 116. βίου οἱ → .
Topics: Trinity
Cite (SBL): Theodoret, Eran. 1.1 (PG 83; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-1). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-1
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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Greek as printed in Migne PG 83 (archive.org OCR); no public-domain or FOTC English exists, so every section was re-read against the Greek (dialogues 1-2 partly by the translator and partly in a separate review pass).
1.2PG 83
ΕΡΑΝ. Δέδεικται σαφῶς ἡ διαφορὰ τοῦ κοινοῦ πρὸς τὸ ἴδιον" ἀλλ᾽ εἰς τὸν περὶ τῆς οὐσίας καὶ τῆς ὑποστάσεως ἐπανέλθωμεν λόγον. ΟΡΘ. Ὥσπερ τοίνυν τὸ ἄνθρωπος ὄνομα κοινόν ἐστι ταύτης τῆς φύσεως ὄνομα, οὕτω τὴν θείαν οὐ-σίαν τὴν ἁγίαν Τριάδα σημαίνειν εἰλήφαμεν " τὴν δέ γε ὑπόστασιν, προσώπον τινὸς εἶναι δηλωτιχῆν, οἷον, ἣ τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἣ τοῦ Υἱοῦ, ἣ τοῦ ἁγίου Πνεόματος. Τὴν γὰρ ὑπόστασιν, καὶ τὸ πρόσωπον, καὶ τὴν ἰδιότητα, ταὐτὸν σημαίνειν φαμὲν τοῖς τῶν ἀγίων Πατέρὼν ὅροις ἀκολουθοῦντες. ΟΡΘ. “Ὅσα τοίνυν περὶ τῆς θείας λέγεται φύσεως, κοινὰ ταῦτά ἐστι τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἀγίου Πνεύματος, οἷον, τὸ Θεὸς, τὸ Κύριος, τὸ δημιουργὸς, τὸ παντοχράτωρ, καὶ ὅσα τούτοις ἐστὶ παραπλήσια. ΕΡΑΝ. ᾿Αναμφισδητήτως κοινὰ τῆς Τριάδος ἐστίν. ΟΡΘ. Ὅσα δ᾽ αὖ τῶν ὑποστάσεων ὑπάρχει δηλωτικὰ, οὐκέτι ταῦτα τῆς ἁγίας Τριάδος κοινὰ, ἀλλ᾽ ἐκείνης ἐστὶ τῆς ὑποστάσεως, ἧς ἐστιν ἴδιον. Οἷον τὸ Πατήρ ὄνομα, καὶ τὸ ᾿Αγέννητος, τοῦ Πατρός ἐστιν ἴδια, καὶ αὖ πάλιν, τὸ Υἱός ὄνομα, καὶ τὸ Μονογενής, καὶ τὸ Θεὸς Λόγος, οὐ τὸν Πατέρα δηλοῖ, οὐδὲ τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον, ἀλλὰ τὸν Υἱόν. Καὶ τὸ Πνεῦμα δὲ τὸ ἅγιον, καὶ ὁ Παράκλητος, τῆς τοῦ Πνεύματος ( ὑποστάσεως ὑπάρχει δηλωτικά. ΕΡΑΝ. Οὐ καλεῖ τοίνυν ἡ θεία Γραφὴ Πνεῦμα καὶ τὸν Πατέρα καὶ τὸν Υἱόν; ΟΡΘ. Πνεῦμα κέκληκε καὶ τὸν Πατέρα καὶ τὸν Υἱὸν, τὸ ἀσώματον καὶ ἀπερίγραφον τῆς θείας φύσεως διὰ τούτου σημαίνουσα" Πνεῦμα δὲ ἅγιον μόνην τοῦ Πνεύματος τὴν ὑπόστασιν ὀνομάζει. ΕΡΑΝ. ᾿Αναμφίλεκτόν ἐστι καὶ τοῦτο. ΟΡΘ. Ἐπειδὴ τοίνυν τινὰ μὲν ἔφαμεν τῆς ἁγίας Τριάδος κοινὰ, τινὰ δὲ ἐκάστης ὑποστάσεως ἴδια, τὸ ἄτρεπτον ὄνομα κοινὸν εἶναι τῆς οὐσίας φαμὲν, ἢ τινος ὑποστάσεως ἴδιον : ΕΡΑΝ. Κοινόν ἐστι τῆς Τριάδος τὸ ἄτρεπτον. Ὁ θὐδὲ γὰρ οἷόν τε, τὸ μὲν εἶναι τῆς οὐσίας τρεπτὸν, τὸ δὲ ἄτρεπτον. ΟΡΘ. “Ἄριστα εἴρηκας. “Ὥσπερ γὰρ τῶν ἀνθρώπων κοινόν ἐστι τὸ θνητὸν, οὕτω τῆς ἁγίας Τριάδος κοινὸν τὸ ἄτρεπτόν τε καὶ ἀναλλοίωτον. τοιγαροῦν καὶ ὁ μονογενὴς Υἱὸς, καθὰ καὶ ὁ γεννή σὰς αὐτὸν Πατὴρ, καὶ τὸ ἅγιον Πνεῦμα. ΟΡΘ. Πῶς τοίνυν τὸ εὐαγγελικὸν ἐκεῖνο ῥητὸν παράγοντες, τὸ, « Ὁ Λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο, » τροπὴν τῇ ἀτρέπτῳ προσάπτετε φύσει; ΕΡΑΝ. Οὐ κατὰ τροπὴν αὐτὸν “λέγομεν σθαι σάρκα, ἀλλ᾽ ὡς οἶδεν αὐτός. ΟΡΘ. Εἰ μὴ σάρκα λαδὼν λέγεται γεγενῆσθαι σὰρξ, δυοῖν θάτερον ἀνάγκη λέγειν, ἣ τὴν εἷς σάρκα τροπὴν αὐτὸν ὑπομεμενηκέναι, ἢ δοκήσει τοιοῦτον ὀφθῆναι, κατὰ δὲ τὸν ἀληθῆ. λόγον ἄσαρκον εἶναι Θεόν. καὶ Μανικαίων ἢ δόξα. Ἡμεῖς δὲ ὁμολσγουμένως ἐδιδάχθημεν σαῤχωθῆναι τὸν Θεὸν Λόγον. ΟΡΘ. Τὸ σαρχωθῆναϊι τὲ νοοῦντες; τὸ σάρκα λαδεῖν, ἣ τὸ ἐἰς -σάρκα τραπῆναϊ; ΕΡΑΝ. “Α ἡμεῖς ἀκηκόαμεν τοῦ δὐάαγγελιστοῦ λέγοντος᾽ ε« Ὁ Λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο. ὃ - ΘΡΘ. '"Τὸ δὲ ᾿ξ γένετο πῶς νοεῖτε" ΕΡΑΝ. Οὐ τὴν εἰς σάρκα τροπὴν ὑπομείνας ἐγέγετο σὰρξ, ᾿κάλ ἤδη ἔφην, ὡς οἶδεν. Ἡμεῖς δὲ ἔσμεν ὅτι ἄπαντα αὐτῷ δυνατά, Καὶ γὰρ τὸ Νειλῷον ὕδωρ εἰς αἷμα μετέδαλε, καὶ τὴν ἡμέραν εἰς νύκτα, καὶ «ἣν θάλατταν ἤκειρον ἔδειξε, καὶ τὴν ἄνυδρον ἔρηφήτου λέγοντος" «Πάντα ὅνα ᾿ἠθέχησεν ὁ Κύριός ἐποίησεν ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐν τῇ γῇ. » ὍὉΡΘ, Τὴν κτῖσιν ὁ Ποιητὴς ὡς ἂν ἐθέλῃ μὲέτασχευάζεϊ " τρεπτὴ γάρ ἐστι, καὶ τοῖς τοῦ δημιουργῆσαντος ἀκολουθεῖ νεύμασιν. Αὐτὸς δὲ ἄτρεπτον ἔχει τὴν φύσιν καὶ ἀναλλοίωτον. Τούτου δὴ χάριν, περὶ “μὲν τῆς Κτίσεως ὁ προφήτης φησίν' ' Ὃ ποιῶν πάντα "καὶ μετασκευάζων" »" περὶ δὲ τοῦ Θεοῦ Λόγου ὁ μέγᾶς λέγει Δαδίδ'" ε Σὺ δὲ ὁ αὐτὸς εἶ, καὶ ἔτη σου οὐκ ἐκλείψουσι. » Καὶ πάλιν ὁ αὐτὸς Θεὸς περὶ ἑαυτοῦ" « Ἐγώ εἶμι, καὶ οὐκ ἢλλοίωμαι. »
ERAN. Dedeiktai saphōs hē diaphora tou koinou pros to idion" all᾽ eis ton peri tēs ousias kai tēs hypostaseōs epanelthōmen logon. ORTh. Hōsper toinyn to anthrōpos onoma koinon esti tautēs tēs physeōs onoma, houtō tēn theian ou-sian tēn hagian Triada sēmainein eilēphamen " tēn de ge hypostasin, prosōpon tinos einai dēlōtichēn, hoion, hē tou Patros, hē tou Huiou, hē tou hagiou Pneomatos. Tēn gar hypostasin, kai to prosōpon, kai tēn idiotēta, tauton sēmainein phamen tois tōn agiōn Paterōn horois akolouthountes. ORTh. “Hosa toinyn peri tēs theias legetai physeōs, koina tauta esti tou Patros kai tou Huiou kai tou agiou Pneumatos, hoion, to Theos, to Kyrios, to dēmiourgos, to pantochratōr, kai hosa toutois esti paraplēsia. ERAN. ᾿Anamphisdētētōs koina tēs Triados estin. ORTh. Hosa d᾽ au tōn hypostaseōn hyparchei dēlōtika, ouketi tauta tēs hagias Triados koina, all᾽ ekeinēs esti tēs hypostaseōs, hēs estin idion. Hoion to Patēr onoma, kai to ᾿Agennētos, tou Patros estin idia, kai au palin, to Huios onoma, kai to Monogenēs, kai to Theos Logos, ou ton Patera dēloi, oude to Pneuma to hagion, alla ton Huion. Kai to Pneuma de to hagion, kai ho Paraklētos, tēs tou Pneumatos ( hypostaseōs hyparchei dēlōtika. ERAN. Ou kalei toinyn hē theia Graphē Pneuma kai ton Patera kai ton Huion? ORTh. Pneuma keklēke kai ton Patera kai ton Huion, to asōmaton kai aperigraphon tēs theias physeōs dia toutou sēmainousa" Pneuma de hagion monēn tou Pneumatos tēn hypostasin onomazei. ERAN. ᾿Anamphilekton esti kai touto. ORTh. Epeidē toinyn tina men ephamen tēs hagias Triados koina, tina de ekastēs hypostaseōs idia, to atrepton onoma koinon einai tēs ousias phamen, ē tinos hypostaseōs idion : ERAN. Koinon esti tēs Triados to atrepton. Ho thyde gar hoion te, to men einai tēs ousias trepton, to de atrepton. ORTh. “Arista eirēkas. “Hōsper gar tōn anthrōpōn koinon esti to thnēton, houtō tēs hagias Triados koinon to atrepton te kai analloiōton. toigaroun kai ho monogenēs Huios, katha kai ho gennē sas auton Patēr, kai to hagion Pneuma. ORTh. Pōs toinyn to euangelikon ekeino rhēton paragontes, to, « Ho Logos sarx egeneto, » tropēn tę̄ atreptǭ prosaptete physei? ERAN. Ou kata tropēn auton “legomen sthai sarka, all᾽ hōs oiden autos. ORTh. Ei mē sarka ladōn legetai gegenēsthai sarx, dyoin thateron anankē legein, hē tēn heis sarka tropēn auton hypomemenēkenai, ē dokēsei toiouton ophthēnai, kata de ton alēthē. logon asarkon einai Theon. kai Manikaiōn ē doxa. Hēmeis de homolsgoumenōs edidachthēmen sarchōthēnai ton Theon Logon. ORTh. To sarchōthēnaïi te noountes? to sarka ladein, hē to eis -sarka trapēnaï? ERAN. “A hēmeis akēkoamen tou dyaangelistou legontos᾽ e« Ho Logos sarx egeneto. ho - ThRTh. '"To de ᾿x geneto pōs noeite" ERAN. Ou tēn eis sarka tropēn hypomeinas egegeto sarx, ᾿kal ēdē ephēn, hōs oiden. Hēmeis de esmen hoti apanta autǭ dynata, Kai gar to Neilǭon hydōr eis haima metedale, kai tēn hēmeran eis nykta, kai «hēn thalattan ēkeiron edeixe, kai tēn anydron erēphētou legontos" «Panta hona ᾿ēthechēsen ho Kyrios epoiēsen en tǭ ouranǭ kai en tę̄ gę̄. » HoORTh, Tēn ktisin ho Poiētēs hōs an ethelę̄ meetascheuazeï " treptē gar esti, kai tois tou dēmiourgēsantos akolouthei neumasin. Autos de atrepton echei tēn physin kai analloiōton. Toutou dē charin, peri “men tēs Ktiseōs ho prophētēs phēsin' ' Ho poiōn panta "kai metaskeuazōn" »" peri de tou Theou Logou ho megas legei Dadid'" e Sy de ho autos ei, kai etē sou ouk ekleipsousi. » Kai palin ho autos Theos peri heautou" « Egō eimi, kai ouk ēlloiōmai. »
Eranistes: The difference between the common and the particular has been clearly shown; but let us return to the discussion of substance and hypostasis. Orthodoxos: Just as, then, the name “human being” is a name common to this nature, so we have understood the divine substance to signify the holy Trinity, and hypostasis to indicate a person, for example that of the Father, or of the Son, or of the Holy Spirit. For we say that hypostasis, person, and property signify the same thing, following the definitions of the holy Fathers. … Orthodoxos: Whatever, then, is said of the divine nature is common to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, for example “God,” “Lord,” “Creator,” “Almighty,” and whatever is like these. Eranistes: They are indisputably common to the Trinity. Orthodoxos: But whatever indicates the hypostases is no longer common to the holy Trinity, but belongs to that hypostasis whose property it is. For example, the name “Father” and “Unbegotten” are proper to the Father; and again, the name “Son,” and “Only-begotten,” and “God the Word” do not denote the Father, nor the Holy Spirit, but the Son. And “the Holy Spirit” and “the Paraclete” indicate the hypostasis of the Spirit. Eranistes: Does not the divine Scripture, then, call both the Father and the Son “Spirit”? Orthodoxos: It has called both the Father and the Son “Spirit,” signifying by this the incorporeal and uncircumscribed character of the divine nature; but it gives the name “Holy Spirit” to the hypostasis of the Spirit alone. Eranistes: This too is beyond dispute. Orthodoxos: Since, then, we have said that some things are common to the holy Trinity and others proper to each hypostasis, do we say that the name “immutable” is common to the substance, or proper to some hypostasis? Eranistes: Immutability is common to the Trinity. For it is not possible for part of the substance to be mutable and part immutable. Orthodoxos: You have spoken excellently. For just as mortality is common to human beings, so immutability and unalterability are common to the holy Trinity. Therefore the only-begotten Son too [is immutable], just as the Father who begot him, and the Holy Spirit. … Orthodoxos: How, then, do you bring forward that saying of the Gospel, “The Word became flesh,” and attach change to the immutable nature? Eranistes: We do not say that he became flesh by change, but as he himself knows. Orthodoxos: If he is not said to have become flesh by taking flesh, one of two things must be said: either that he underwent change into flesh, or that he appeared so in seeming, while in true reality he was God without flesh. … and this is the opinion of the Manichees. But we were taught, as is agreed, that God the Word was made flesh. Orthodoxos: What do you understand by “was made flesh”? Taking flesh, or being changed into flesh? Eranistes: What we have heard the evangelist saying: “The Word became flesh.” Orthodoxos: And how do you understand “became”? Eranistes: He became flesh not by undergoing change into flesh, but, as I have already said, as he knows. And we know that all things are possible to him. For he changed the water of the Nile into blood, and day into night, and showed the sea as dry land, and the waterless desert … the prophet saying: “All that the Lord willed, he did, in heaven and on earth.” Orthodoxos: The Maker remodels creation as he wills; for it is mutable and follows the nod of the one who created it. But he himself has a nature immutable and unalterable. For this reason the prophet says of the creation, “He who makes all things and changes them,” but of God the Word the great David says, “But you are the same, and your years will not fail.” And again God himself says of himself: “I am, and I have not changed.”
John 1:14 (quotation, high confidence) · Exod 7:20 (allusion, high confidence) · Exod 10:22 (allusion, medium confidence) · Exod 14:21 (allusion, high confidence) · Ps 135:6 (134:6 LXX) (quotation, high confidence) · Amos 5:8 (quotation, high confidence) · Ps 102:27 (101:28 LXX) (quotation, high confidence) · Mal 3:6 (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: Orthodoxos distinguishes what is common to the Trinity from what is proper to each hypostasis, gets Eranistes to admit that immutability is common to all three, and presses him on how 'the Word became flesh' without change.
- Lines have dropped out of the OCR where '…' is printed (Eranistes' replies after 'holy Fathers' and after 'Holy Spirit'; the start of Eranistes' reply mentioning the Manichees; the end of the list of Exodus miracles). At 'He became flesh not by undergoing change' the OCR reads 'He who underwent change into flesh became flesh', which contradicts Eranistes' own position just stated; the first letter is corrected to the negative 'not' (logged correction). Quotations: John 1:14; Ps 135:6 (LXX 134:6); Amos 5:8 (LXX wording); Ps 102:27 (LXX 101:28); Mal 3:6. The Exodus miracles: Exod 7:20; 10:22; 14:21. The Manichees are named as holders of the view that Christ only seemed to have flesh; the description is Theodoret's.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (OCR misread of the negative Οὐ (the sense requires it)): Ὁ τὴν εἰς σάρκα τροπὴν → Οὐ τὴν εἰς σάρκα τροπὴν.
Topics: Trinity, Christology, Heresy
Cite (SBL): Theodoret, Eran. 1.2 (PG 83; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-2). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-2
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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Greek as printed in Migne PG 83 (archive.org OCR); no public-domain or FOTC English exists, so every section was re-read against the Greek (dialogues 1-2 partly by the translator and partly in a separate review pass).
1.3PG 83
ΕΡΑΝ. Τὰ κεκρυμμένα οὐ δεῖ ζητέϊν. ΟΡΘ. Οὐδὲ τὰ δεδηλωμένα παντελῶς ᾿ἀγνοέϊν. ΕΡΑΝ. Ἐμὲ λανθάνει ὁ τῆς σαρκώσεως τρΐπος " ἔχουσα δὲ ὅτι ὁ Λόγος δὰρξ ἐγένετο. ΟΡΘ. Εἰ τραπεὶς ἐγένετο σὰῤξ, οὐ ᾿μεμένηκεν ὅπερ πρότερον ἦν᾽ καὶ τοῦτο ἐκ πολλῶν εἰκόνων καταμαθεῖν εὐπετές. Καὶ γὰρ ἢ τοιάδε ἄμμος προσομιλοῦσα πυρὶ, πρῶτον μὲν ῥοώδης γίνεται, εἶτα εἰς ὕαλον μεταπήγνυται, καὶ ἅμα τῇ τροπῇ τὴν προσὀνομάζεται. ΟΡΘ. Καὶ τῆς ἀμπέλου τὸν καρπὸν σταφυλὴν ὀνομάζοντες, ὅταν ἀποθλίψωμεν, οὐ σταφυλὴν, ἀλλὰ οἶνον προσαγορεύομεν. ΟΡΘ. Αὐτὸν δὲ τὸν οἶνον, ἐχτροπίαν γενόμενον, οὐκέτι οἶνον, ἀλλ᾽ ὄξος ὀνομάζειν εἰώθαμεν. ΟΡΘ. Οὕτω τὸν λίθον ἕψοντές τε καὶ διαλύοντες, καλοῦμεν " μυρία δὲ τοιαῦτα ἔστιν εὑρεῖν, ἃ σὺν τῇ προπῇ με- ΟΡΘ. Εἰ τοίνυν τὴν εἰς σάρκα ερόναν τὸν Θεὸν ἜΡΟΝ ὑπομεμενηκέναι φατὲ, τί δήποτε Θεὸν αὐτὸν ( μὴ σάρκα προσαγϑορεύετε; ᾿Αρμόττει γὰρ τῇ ΠΣ τῆς φύσεως ἡ τῆς προσηγορίας ἐναλλαγή. Εἰ γὰρ ἔνθα τὰ μεταδαλλόμενα ἔχει τινὰ πρὸς ἃ πρότερον ἦν συγγένειαν (πελάζει. γάρ πως καὶ τὸ ὄξος τῷ οἴνῳ, καὶ ὁ οἶνος τῷ τῆς ἀμπέλου καρπῷ, καὶ τῇ ψάμμῳ ἡ ὕαλος), ἑτέρας ταῦτα μετὰ τὴν ἀλλοίωσιν μεταλαγχάνει κροσηγορίας " ὅπου τὸ διάφορον ἄπειρον, καὶ τοσοῦτον ὅσον ἐμπίδος πρὸς. τὴν κτίσιν ἅπασαν τὴν ὁρατὴν καὶ ἀόρατον (τοσοῦτον γὰρ, μᾶλλον δὲ καὶ πολλῷ πλέον, τὸ μέσον φύσεως Ὁ γὰρ εὐαγγελιστὴς, τν, 15. χὸς καὶ θεότητος)» πῶς οἷόν τε μετὰ τὴν τροπὴν τὴν προτέραν μεῖναι προσηγορίαν; ΕΡΑΝ. Πολλάκις ἔφην, ὅτι οὐ κατὰ τροπὴν ἐγένετὸ σὰρξ, ἀλλὰ μένων ὃ ἦν, γέγονεν ὃ οὐκ ἦν.. ΟΡΘ. ᾿Αλλὰ τοῦτο τὸ γέγονεν, εἰ μὴ σαφὲς γένοιτο, τροπὴν αἰνίττεται καὶ ἀλλοίωσιν. Εἰ μὴ γὰρ σάρκα λαθὼν ἐγένετο σὰρξ, τραπεὶς ἐγένετο σάρξ. « Ὁ Δόγος δὰρξ ἐγένετο, » λέγει. ΟΡΘ. “Ἔοικας ἣ τὴν θείαν Γραφὴν ἀγνοεῖν, ἣ ἐπιστάμενος κακουργεῖν. ᾿Εγὼ δέ σε, ἣ ἀγνοοῦντα διδάξω, ἣ χαχουργοῦντα ἐλέγξω.. ᾿Απόκριναι τοίνυν, τοῦ θείου Παύλον πνευματικὴν τὴν διδασκαλίαν ὁμο- ΟΡΘ. Καὶ τὸ αὐτὸ Πνεῦμα, διά τε τῶν ευαγτελιστῶν, διά τε τῶν ἀποστόλων ἐνεργῆσαι λέγεις; ΕΡΑΝ. Οὕτω φημί" οὅτω γὰρ παρὰ τῆς ἀποστολικῆς ἐδιδάχθην Γραφῆς" ε Διαιρέσεις γὰρ, φησὶ, χαρισμάτων εἰσὶ, τὸ δὲ αὐτὸ Πνεῦμα. » Καὶ πάλιν" «Ταῦτα δὲ πάντα ἐνεργεῖ τὸ ὃν καυ»τὸ αὐτὸ Πνεῦμα, διαιροῦν ἰδίᾳ ἑκάστῳ καθὼς βούλεται. » Καὶ αὖθις" « Ἔχοντες δὲ τὸ αὐτὸ Πνεῦμα τῆς πίστεως. »
ERAN. Ta kekrymmena ou dei zēteïn. ORTh. Oude ta dedēlōmena pantelōs ᾿agnoeïn. ERAN. Eme lanthanei ho tēs sarkōseōs trïpos " echousa de hoti ho Logos darx egeneto. ORTh. Ei trapeis egeneto sarx, ou ᾿memenēken hoper proteron ēn᾽ kai touto ek pollōn eikonōn katamathein eupetes. Kai gar ē toiade ammos prosomilousa pyri, prōton men rhoōdēs ginetai, eita eis hyalon metapēgnytai, kai hama tę̄ tropę̄ tēn prosonomazetai. ORTh. Kai tēs ampelou ton karpon staphylēn onomazontes, hotan apothlipsōmen, ou staphylēn, alla oinon prosagoreuomen. ORTh. Auton de ton oinon, echtropian genomenon, ouketi oinon, all᾽ oxos onomazein eiōthamen. ORTh. Houtō ton lithon hepsontes te kai dialyontes, kaloumen " myria de toiauta estin heurein, ha syn tę̄ propę̄ me- ORTh. Ei toinyn tēn eis sarka eronan ton Theon ERON hypomemenēkenai phate, ti dēpote Theon auton ( mē sarka prosagϑoreuete? ᾿Armottei gar tę̄ PS tēs physeōs hē tēs prosēgorias enallagē. Ei gar entha ta metadallomena echei tina pros ha proteron ēn syngeneian (pelazei. gar pōs kai to oxos tǭ oinǭ, kai ho oinos tǭ tēs ampelou karpǭ, kai tę̄ psammǭ hē hyalos), heteras tauta meta tēn alloiōsin metalanchanei krosēgorias " hopou to diaphoron apeiron, kai tosouton hoson empidos pros. tēn ktisin hapasan tēn horatēn kai aoraton (tosouton gar, mallon de kai pollǭ pleon, to meson physeōs Ho gar euangelistēs, tn, 15. chos kai theotētos)» pōs hoion te meta tēn tropēn tēn proteran meinai prosēgorian? ERAN. Pollakis ephēn, hoti ou kata tropēn egeneto sarx, alla menōn ho ēn, gegonen ho ouk ēn.. ORTh. ᾿Alla touto to gegonen, ei mē saphes genoito, tropēn ainittetai kai alloiōsin. Ei mē gar sarka lathōn egeneto sarx, trapeis egeneto sarx. « Ho Dogos darx egeneto, » legei. ORTh. “Eoikas hē tēn theian Graphēn agnoein, hē epistamenos kakourgein. ᾿Egō de se, hē agnoounta didaxō, hē chachourgounta elenxō.. ᾿Apokrinai toinyn, tou theiou Paulon pneumatikēn tēn didaskalian homo- ORTh. Kai to auto Pneuma, dia te tōn euagtelistōn, dia te tōn apostolōn energēsai legeis? ERAN. Houtō phēmi" hootō gar para tēs apostolikēs edidachthēn Graphēs" e Diaireseis gar, phēsi, charismatōn eisi, to de auto Pneuma. » Kai palin" «Tauta de panta energei to hon kau»to auto Pneuma, diairoun idią hekastǭ kathōs bouletai. » Kai authis" « Echontes de to auto Pneuma tēs pisteōs. »
Eranistes: One must not search into hidden things. Orthodoxos: Nor be wholly ignorant of what has been revealed. Eranistes: The manner of the incarnation escapes me; but I have heard that the Word became flesh. Orthodoxos: If he became flesh by being changed, he has not remained what he was before; and this is easy to learn from many images. For sand of a certain kind, when it meets fire, first becomes fluid, then sets into glass, and together with the change it takes on its name … Orthodoxos: And the fruit of the vine, which we call a grape cluster, once we have pressed it, we call no longer a grape cluster but wine. … Orthodoxos: And the wine itself, when it has turned, we are accustomed to call no longer wine but vinegar. … Orthodoxos: So too, when we burn and dissolve stone, we call it … And countless such things can be found which together with the change … Orthodoxos: If, then, you say that God the Word underwent change into flesh, why do you not call him flesh rather than God? For a change of name fits the alteration of nature. For if, where the things that are changed have some kinship with what they were before (for vinegar is somehow close to wine, and wine to the fruit of the vine, and glass to sand), these take other names after the alteration, then where the difference is infinite, as great as that of a gnat compared with the whole creation, visible and invisible (for so great, or rather much greater, is the gap between the nature of flesh and the Godhead), how is it possible for the former name to remain after the change? Eranistes: I have often said that he became flesh not by change, but, remaining what he was, he became what he was not. Orthodoxos: But this “became,” unless it is made clear, hints at change and alteration. For if he did not become flesh by taking flesh, he became flesh by being changed. [Eranistes:] “The Word became flesh,” it says. Orthodoxos: You seem either to be ignorant of the divine Scripture or, knowing it, to be acting in bad faith. But I will either teach you if you are ignorant, or refute you if you are acting in bad faith. Answer, then: do you confess that the teaching of the divine Paul is spiritual? … Orthodoxos: And do you say that the same Spirit worked both through the evangelists and through the apostles? Eranistes: So I say; for so I was taught by the apostolic Scripture: “For there are varieties of gifts,” it says, “but the same Spirit.” And again: “All these are worked by one and the same Spirit, who distributes to each individually as he wills.” And again: “Having the same Spirit of faith.”
Textual problem in this passage: see the notes.
John 1:14 (quotation, high confidence) · 1 Cor 12:4 (quotation, high confidence) · 1 Cor 12:11 (quotation, high confidence) · 2 Cor 4:13 (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: Orthodoxos argues from glass, wine, vinegar and lime that a thing changed into something else takes a new name, so a Word changed into flesh could no longer be called God; Eranistes falls back on 'the Word became flesh'.
- Several lines have dropped out of the OCR where '…' is printed: Eranistes' replies between Orthodoxos' examples, the name of burnt stone (lime), and Eranistes' answer that Paul's teaching is spiritual. Migne's Latin column read as Greek letters has been removed (logged corrections); a few stray letters remain inside the parenthesis on the gap between flesh and Godhead, which is translated by sense. In 'but I have heard' the OCR has a garbled verb (ἔχουσα), translated by sense. Quotations: John 1:14; 1 Cor 12:4; 12:11; 2 Cor 4:13.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (Migne's Latin column and marginal references read as Greek letters; Migne's Latin column read as Greek letters): χ, 10, ποτὶ!. τηῦ. οἰ εἰ 7 80 τα ἰῃ 60 οἱ ἴῃ ἴογγα ἥ.» 68. δῃΐπὶ πη 14}0}}}8, αἱ [Δ γι οδίογὶθ ἢσίιπι βο αὶ Γ. ὃ;» ἀδ ἀὰθη; ὁδί. → ; καὶ ἐρδῦμῃ ἀρρο ]α 183 ἀοηστυ! Θη τ παῖλυγορ τυ! Δι οπὶ βου 1 }.- Ὧν τ → ; ἸΩ6ῃ βίον παίυγαπι οΔγηΪ8 οἱ ἀἰν, φυοτηοάο → ; σαρτ:ἰαιϊοποπὶ ἱπποῖί οἱ δἰ γα! ποθ. οϑὲ 11,» δυΐ 86 68 γἰ (8 ] 6 1 ν.» Εἰ τυγ- 1 16 ογ. κπὶ, 4. 33 νά. 11. → .
Topics: Christology
Cite (SBL): Theodoret, Eran. 1.3 (PG 83; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-3). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-3
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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Greek as printed in Migne PG 83 (archive.org OCR); no public-domain or FOTC English exists, so every section was re-read against the Greek (dialogues 1-2 partly by the translator and partly in a separate review pass).
1.4PG 83
ΟΡΘ. Εἰς καιρὸν τὰς ἀποστολικὰς παρήγαγες ἢ μαρτυρίας. Εἰ τοίνυν τοῦ αὐτοῦ Πνεύματος εἶναί φαμεν τά τε τῶν εὐαγγελιστῶν, τά τε τῶν ἀποστόλων παιδεύματα, ἄκουσον τοῦ ᾿Αποστόλου τὸ εὐαγλων οὕτως ἔφη᾽ «Οὐ γὰρ δήπου ἀγγέλων ἐπιλαμδάνεται, ἀλλὰ σπέρματος ᾿Αδραὰμ ἐπιλαμόάνεται. » ᾿Απόκριναι τοίνυν, τί νοεῖς τὸ σπέρμα τοῦ ᾿Αδραάμ; οὐκοῦν ὅπερ εἶχε κατὰ φύσιν ᾿Δόραὰμ, εἶχε καὶ τὸ σπέρμα τοῦ ᾿Αδραάμ; ΕΡΑΝ. Οὐ πάντα. ᾿Δμαρτίαν γὰρ ὁ Χριστὸς οὐκ ἐποίησεν. Ο0ΡΘ. Ἡ ἁμαρτία οὐκ ἔστι τῆς φύσεως, ἀλλὰ τῆς,κακῆς προαιρέσεως. Τούτου δὴ χάριν, οὐκ ἀορίστως ἔφην, ὅπερ εἶχεν ᾿Αὐραὰμ, ἀλλ᾽ ὅπερ εἶχε κατὰ φύ- σιν, τουτέστι σῶμα καὶ ψυχὴν λογικήν. Εἰπὲ τοίνυν σαφῶς, εἰ συνομολογεῖς τὸ ἀπέρμα τοῦ ᾿Αδραὰμ. καὶ σῶμα εἶναι καὶ ψυχὴν λογικήν. Εἴπερ ἄρα μὴ, καὶ κατὰ τοῦτο τοῖς ᾿Απολιναρίου συμφέρῃ ληρήμαάόιν. ᾿Αλλὰ γὰρ καὶ ἑτέρωθέν δὲ τοῦτο συνομολογῇσαι καταναγχάσω. Εἰπὲ τοίνυν, οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι σῶμα ἔχου: δι καὶ ψυχὴν λογικὴν; ΕΡΑΆΝ. Δῆλον ὡς ἔχουσιν. ΟΡΘ. Ὅταν τοίνυν ἀκούσωμέν τοῦ προφήτου λέγόντος, « Σὺ δὲ, Ἰσραὴλ ὁ παῖς μου, Ἰαχὼδ ὃν ἐξδάρχας τοὺς Ἰουδαίους νοοῦμεν, οὐ νοοῦμεν ἀνθρώποὺς ἐκ σωμάτων καὶ ψυχῶν δυνεστῶτας; « ὈΡΘ. Καὶ τὸ σπέρμα τοῦ ᾿Αδραὰμ, ὀὐχ ἄψυχον, οὐδὲ ἄνουν, ἀλλὰ πάντα ἔχον, ὁπόσά τὴν φύσιν χα- ΟΡΘ. Ὁ δὲ τὸν Θεὸν Λόγον εἰς σάρκα τετράφθαι λέγων, οὐδὲ ἕνα λέγει Υἱόν. Σὰρξ γὰρ αὐτὴ καθ» αὑτὴν οὐκ Υἱός. Ἡμεῖς δὲ ἕνα Υἱὸν ὁμολογοῦμεν, σκέρμάτος ᾿Αδραὰμ. ἐπιλαμδανόμενον κατὰ τὸν θεῖον ᾿Απόστολον, καὶ τὴν τῶν ἀνθρώπων πραγματευ σά ἴδενον σωτηρίαν. Εἰ δὲ μὴ στέργεις τὴν ἀποστολικὴν ΕΡΑΝ. Ἐναντία τόΐνυν φαμὲν εἰρηκέναι τοὺφ ἀποστόλους. Ἑναντίον γὰρ εἶναί πως δοκεῖ τὸ, « Ὁ Αόγος σὰρξ ἐγόνετο,» τῷ, « Σπέρματος ᾿Αδραὰμ ἐναντία δοκεῖ τὰ σύμφωνα, Τοῖς γὰρ σώφρονι λογ:σμῷ χεχρημένοις οὐ φαίνέται. Διδάσκει γὰρ ὁ θεῖος ᾿Απόστολος, ὡς οὐ τραπεὶς ὁ Θεὸς Λόγος σὰῤξ ἐγόγετο, ἀλλὰ σπέρματος; ᾿Αὐραὰμ, ἐπιλαθόμενος. Κατὰ ταὐτὸν δὲ, καὶ τῆς πρὸς νὸν ᾿Αὐραὰμ γεγενημένης ἐπαγγελίας ἀναμιμνήσκει. Ἢ οὐ μέμνησαι τῶν τῷ πατριάρχῃ παρὰ τοῦ Θεοῦ τῶν ὅλων δοθεισῶν ὑπο- ὍΡΘ. Ἡνίχα αὐτὸν ἐκ τῆς πατρῴας ἐξήγαγεν οἰκίας, καὶ εἰς τὴν Παλαιότίνην ἐλθεῖν παρηγγύησεν, οὐκ ἔφη πρὸς αὐτὸν, « Εὐλογήσω ἐοὺς εὐλογοῦντάς 46, καὶ τοὺς καταρωμένους σε καταράσομαι, καὶ ΟΡΘ. Σοὶ τῷ μὴ νοοῦντι, ἢ μάτην φιλόνεικοῦντι, εὐλογηθήσονται ἐν τῷ σπέρματί σου πάντα τὰ ἔθνη ἢ) τῆς γῆς;» ΕΡΑΝ. Μέμνημαι τῶνδέ τῶν ὑποσχέσεων. ΟΡΘ. Οὐκοῦν ἀναμνήσθητι καὶ τῶν πρὸς Ἰσαὰκ καὶ Ἰαχὼδ γεγενημένων παρὰ τοῦ Θεοῦ συνθηκῶν. Τὰς αὐτὰς γὰρ καὶ τούτοις δέδωκεν ὑποσχέσεις, βεὀαιῶν τοῖς δευτέροις καὶ τρίτοις τὰ πρότερα. ΕΡΑΝ. Μέμνημαι καὶ τούτων. ᾿Απόστολος, οὕτως ἐν τῇ πρὸς Γαλάτας φησί" « Τῷ δὲ ᾿Αὐραὰμ, ἐῤῥήθησαν αἱ ἐπαγγελίαι, καὶ τῷ σπέρ ματι αὑτοῦ. Οὐ λέγει, Καὶ τοῖς σπέρμασιν αὐτοῦ, ὡς ἐπὶ πολλοῖς, ἀλλ᾽ ὡς ἐφ᾽ ἑνὸς, ὅς ἐστι Χριστός " ἐναργέστατα δεικνὺς τὴν ἀνθρωπότητα τοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐκ σπέρματος βλαστήσασαν ᾿Αδραὰμ, καὶ τὴν πρὸς σαν.
ORTh. Eis kairon tas apostolikas parēgages ē martyrias. Ei toinyn tou autou Pneumatos einai phamen ta te tōn euangelistōn, ta te tōn apostolōn paideumata, akouson tou ᾿Apostolou to euaglōn houtōs ephē᾽ «Ou gar dēpou angelōn epilamdanetai, alla spermatos ᾿Adraam epilamoanetai. » ᾿Apokrinai toinyn, ti noeis to sperma tou ᾿Adraam? oukoun hoper eiche kata physin ᾿Doraam, eiche kai to sperma tou ᾿Adraam? ERAN. Ou panta. ᾿Dmartian gar ho Christos ouk epoiēsen. O0RTh. Hē hamartia ouk esti tēs physeōs, alla tēs,kakēs proaireseōs. Toutou dē charin, ouk aoristōs ephēn, hoper eichen ᾿Auraam, all᾽ hoper eiche kata phy- sin, toutesti sōma kai psychēn logikēn. Eipe toinyn saphōs, ei synomologeis to aperma tou ᾿Adraam. kai sōma einai kai psychēn logikēn. Eiper ara mē, kai kata touto tois ᾿Apolinariou sympherę̄ lērēmaaoin. ᾿Alla gar kai heterōthen de touto synomologę̄sai katananchasō. Eipe toinyn, hoi Ioudaioi sōma echou: di kai psychēn logikēn? ERAAN. Dēlon hōs echousin. ORTh. Hotan toinyn akousōmen tou prophētou legontos, « Sy de, Israēl ho pais mou, Iachōd hon exdarchas tous Ioudaious nooumen, ou nooumen anthrōpous ek sōmatōn kai psychōn dynestōtas? « ORTh. Kai to sperma tou ᾿Adraam, ouch apsychon, oude anoun, alla panta echon, hoposa tēn physin cha- ORTh. Ho de ton Theon Logon eis sarka tetraphthai legōn, oude hena legei Huion. Sarx gar autē kath» hautēn ouk Huios. Hēmeis de hena Huion homologoumen, skermatos ᾿Adraam. epilamdanomenon kata ton theion ᾿Apostolon, kai tēn tōn anthrōpōn pragmateu sa idenon sōtērian. Ei de mē stergeis tēn apostolikēn ERAN. Enantia toïnyn phamen eirēkenai touph apostolous. Henantion gar einai pōs dokei to, « Ho Aogos sarx egoneto,» tǭ, « Spermatos ᾿Adraam enantia dokei ta symphōna, Tois gar sōphroni log:smǭ chechrēmenois ou phainetai. Didaskei gar ho theios ᾿Apostolos, hōs ou trapeis ho Theos Logos sarx egogeto, alla spermatos? ᾿Auraam, epilathomenos. Kata tauton de, kai tēs pros non ᾿Auraam gegenēmenēs epangelias anamimnēskei. Ē ou memnēsai tōn tǭ patriarchę̄ para tou Theou tōn holōn dotheisōn hypo- HoRTh. Hēnicha auton ek tēs patrǭas exēgagen oikias, kai eis tēn Palaiotinēn elthein parēngyēsen, ouk ephē pros auton, « Eulogēsō eous eulogountas 46, kai tous katarōmenous se katarasomai, kai ORTh. Soi tǭ mē noounti, ē matēn philoneikounti, eulogēthēsontai en tǭ spermati sou panta ta ethnē ē) tēs gēs?» ERAN. Memnēmai tōnde tōn hyposcheseōn. ORTh. Oukoun anamnēsthēti kai tōn pros Isaak kai Iachōd gegenēmenōn para tou Theou synthēkōn. Tas autas gar kai toutois dedōken hyposcheseis, beoaiōn tois deuterois kai tritois ta protera. ERAN. Memnēmai kai toutōn. ᾿Apostolos, houtōs en tę̄ pros Galatas phēsi" « Tǭ de ᾿Auraam, errhēthēsan hai epangeliai, kai tǭ sper mati hautou. Ou legei, Kai tois spermasin autou, hōs epi pollois, all᾽ hōs eph᾽ henos, hos esti Christos " enargestata deiknys tēn anthrōpotēta tou Christou ek spermatos blastēsasan ᾿Adraam, kai tēn pros san.
Orthodoxos: You have brought forward the apostolic testimonies at the right moment. If, then, we say that the teachings both of the evangelists and of the apostles are of the same Spirit, hear the Apostle … spoke thus: “For surely it is not angels that he takes hold of, but he takes hold of the seed of Abraham.” Answer, then: what do you understand by the seed of Abraham? Did not the seed of Abraham have what Abraham had by nature? Eranistes: Not everything. For Christ did no sin. Orthodoxos: Sin is not of nature but of evil choice. For this reason I did not say without qualification “what Abraham had,” but “what he had by nature,” that is, a body and a rational soul. Say, then, clearly whether you agree that the seed of Abraham is both body and rational soul. If you do not, here too you agree with the nonsense of Apollinarius. But I will compel you to agree to this from another direction as well. Tell me, then: do the Jews have a body and a rational soul? Eranistes: Clearly they have. Orthodoxos: When, then, we hear the prophet saying, “But you, Israel my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen …,” we understand the Jews; do we not understand human beings composed of bodies and souls? … Orthodoxos: So too the seed of Abraham is not soulless, nor mindless, but has everything that … nature … Orthodoxos: But he who says that God the Word was changed into flesh does not even speak of one Son. For flesh by itself is not the Son. But we confess one Son, who took hold of the seed of Abraham, according to the divine Apostle, and accomplished the salvation of human beings. But if you are not content with the apostolic … Eranistes: Then we are saying that the apostles spoke contrary to one another. For “The Word became flesh” seems somehow contrary to “He takes hold of the seed of Abraham” … things that agree seem contrary. For to those who use sound reasoning they do not appear so. For the divine Apostle teaches that God the Word became flesh not by being changed, but by taking hold of the seed of Abraham. And at the same time he recalls the promise made to Abraham. Or do you not remember the promises given to the patriarch by the God of the universe? … Orthodoxos: When he led him out of his father's house and commanded him to come into Palestine, did he not say to him, “I will bless those who bless you, and those who curse you I will curse, and …” … Orthodoxos: … for you who do not understand, or who contend in vain … “In your seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed”? Eranistes: I remember these promises. Orthodoxos: Then remember also the covenants that God made with Isaac and Jacob. For he gave these too the same promises, confirming to the second and third what was given first. Eranistes: I remember these too. [Orthodoxos: … the divine] Apostle says thus in the letter to the Galatians: “Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. It does not say, ‘And to seeds,’ as of many, but as of one, who is Christ,” showing most clearly the humanity of Christ, which sprang from the seed of Abraham, and the … promise to …
Heb 2:16 (quotation, high confidence) · 1 Pet 2:22 (allusion, medium confidence) · Isa 41:8 (quotation, high confidence) · Gen 12:1 (allusion, medium confidence) · Gen 12:3 (quotation, high confidence) · Gen 22:18 (quotation, high confidence) · Gen 26:4 (allusion, medium confidence) · Gen 28:14 (allusion, medium confidence) · Gal 3:16 (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: From Heb 2:16 and the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Orthodoxos argues that the Word became flesh not by change but by taking hold of the seed of Abraham, a true body and rational soul.
- Many lines have dropped out of the OCR where '…' is printed, including the end of Orthodoxos' question about the Jews, the turn from Eranistes' objection to Orthodoxos' reply ('… things that agree seem contrary'), and the end of the quotation of Gen 12:3. Migne's Latin column and marginal references read as Greek letters have been removed (logged corrections). Apollinarius (d. ca. 390) denied that Christ had a human rational mind; 'nonsense' (λήρημα) is Theodoret's word. Quotations: Heb 2:16; Isa 41:8; Gen 12:3; Gen 22:18 (cf. 26:4; 28:14); Gal 3:16 (quoted in shortened form).
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (Migne's Latin column read as Greek letters; marginal Scripture references): ἀϊαἰεὶ. δὴ 6556 εού- → ; ἡοὴ ῥόΐ υπὶδὲ ἴῃ → ; 16 ςα, χιῖ, 8. 5 ΠΡΡΥ γι, 16. → ; ἀρ (410. ὨΔη6 βὶ δὶ οἱ ραιγὶ οἱ ἂνὸ ἀδίδπι 90}} δυάς οἱ αυῶ ἰπιἴυ, ΒοΙΠΙοαπὶ ἰοῦσα δυάς, ποαυδαυδπι τ ηΪπηὰ 65 ἰῃ συ πὶ → .
Topics: Christology, Heresy
Cite (SBL): Theodoret, Eran. 1.4 (PG 83; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-4). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-4
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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Greek as printed in Migne PG 83 (archive.org OCR); no public-domain or FOTC English exists, so every section was re-read against the Greek (dialogues 1-2 partly by the translator and partly in a separate review pass).
1.5PG 83
ΕΡΑΝ. Εἴρηται ταῦτα τῷ ᾿Αποστόλῳ. ΟΡΘ. Ἱχκανὰ μὲν καὶ ταῦτα πᾶσαν τὴν περὶ τούτου κινουμένην ἀμφισδήτησιν λῦσαι. Ἐγὼ δὲ ὅμως καὶ ἑτέρας σε προῤῥήσεως ἀναμνήσω. Ἰαχὼδ ὁ πατριάρχης τήνδε τὴν εὐλογίαν αὐτῷ καὶ τῷ τε πατρὶ καὶ τῷ πάππῳ δοθεῖσαν, Ἰούδᾳ τῷ παιδὶ δέδωκε μόνῳ. Ἔφη δὲ οὕτως" ε« Οὐκ ἐκλείψει ἄρχων ἐξ Ἰούδα, καὶ ἡγούμενος ἐκ τῶν μηρῶν αὐτοῦ, ἕως ἂν ἔλθῃ ᾧ ἀπόκειται, καὶ αὐτὸς προσδοκία ἐθνῶν.» Ἢ οὐ δέχῃ τήνδε τὴν πρόῤῥησιν, ὡς περὶ τοῦ Σωτῆρος εἰρημένην Χριστοῦ; ἜΡΑΝ. Ἰουδαῖοι τὰς τοιαύτας παρερμηνεύουαε προφητείας " ἐγὼ δὲ Χριστιανός εἶμι, τοῖς θείοις πιστεύων λόγοις, καὶ τὰς περὶ τοῦ Σωτῆρος ἡμῶν ΟΡΘ. Ἐπειδὴ τοίνυν πιστεύειν ταῖς προφητείαις ὁμολογεῖς, καὶ τὰ προῤῥηθέντα περὶ τοῦ Σωτῆρος ἡμῶν τεθεσπίσθαι λέγεις, νόησον ({ ἐντεῦθεν τῶν ἀποστολικῶν ῥητῶν τὸν σκοπόν. Τὰς γὰρ πρὸς τοὺς πατριάρχας γεγενημένας ἐπαγγελίας πεπερασμένας ἐπιδεικνὺς, τὴν θαυμασίαν ἐχείνην ἀφήκε φωνήν" « Οὐ γὰρ δήπου ἀγγέλων ἐπιλαμδάνεται" » μονονοὐχὶ λέγων, ᾿Αψευδὴς ἡ ὑπόσχεσις, ἐπέθηκε ταῖς ἐπαγγελίαις ὁ Δεσπότης πέρας, ἀνεῴγει τοῖς ἔθνεσιν ἡ τῆς εὐλογίας πηγὴ, τοῦ ᾿Αδραμιαίου σπέρ- ( βάτος ὁ Θεὸς ἐπείληπται, διὰ τούτου τὴν ἄνωθεν ἐπηγγελμένην πραγματεύεται σωτηρίαν, διὰ τούτον τὴν τῶν ἐθνῶν ἐμπεδοῖ προσδοκίαν. ΕΡΑΝ. "Αριστα τοῖς ἀποστολικοῖς τὰ προφητικὰ ΟΡΘ. Οὕτω πάλιν ὁ θεῖος ᾿Απόστολος τῆς τοῦ Ἰούδα ἡμᾶς ἀναμιμνήσκων εὐεργεσίας, καὶ δεικνὺς καὶ ταύτην δεξαμένην τὸ πέρας, βοᾷ’ « Πρόδηλον γὰρ, ὅτι ἐξ ᾿ἸἸούδα ἀνατέταλκεν ὁ Κύριος. ν» Ταὐτὸ δὲ τοῦτο καὶ ὁ προφήτης Μικαίας, καὶ ὁ εὐαγγελιστὴς Ματθαῖος πεποίηκεν. Ὁ μὲν γὰρ εἶπε τὴν πρόῤῥησιν, ὁ δὲ τῇ ἱστορίᾳ τὴν μαρτυρίαν συνέταξε. Καὶ τὸ παράδοξον, ὅτι τοὺς προδηλοτάτους τῆς ἀληθείας ἐχθροὺς ἔφη τῷ Ἢ ρώδῃ σαφῶς εἰπεῖν, ὡς ἐν τῇ Βηθλεὲμ ὁ Χριστὸς γεννᾶται. ε Γέγραπται γὰρ, 0 φησὶ, Καὶ σὺ, Βηθλεὲμ, Ἰὴ Ἰούδα, οὐδαμῶς ἐλαχίστη εἶ ἐν τοῖς ἡγεμόσιν Ἰούδα" ἐκ σοῦ γάρ μοι ἐξελεύσεται ἡγούμενος, ὅστις ποιμανεῖ τὸν λαόν μον τὸν Ἰσραήλ. » ᾿Επαγάγωμεν δὲ καὶ ἡμεῖς καὶ ὅπερ Ἰουδαῖοι κακοήθως παρέλιπον, ἀτελῇ προσενεγχόντες τὴν μαρτυρίαν. Εἰρηκὼς γὰρ ὁ προφήτης, ε Ἐκ σοῦ ἐξελεύσεταί μοι ἡγούμενος, ν ἐπήγαγε" «ε Καὶ αἱ ἔξοδοι αὐτοῦ ἀπ᾽ ἀρχῆς ἀφ᾽ ἡμερῶν αἰῶνος.» ΕΡΑΝ. “Αριστα πεποίηκας, πᾶσαν τεθεικὼς τοῦ προφήτου τὴν μαρτυρίαν. Δείκνυσι γὰρ τὸν ἐν Βη Θεόν. ΟΡΘ. Οὐ Θεὸν μόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἄνθρωπον. "Ανθρωπὸν μὲν, ὡς ἐξ Ἰούδα κατὰ σάρκα βλαστήσαντα, καὶ ἐν Βηθλεὲμ γεννηθέντα’ Θεὸν δὲ, ὡς πρὸ αἰώνων ὑπάρχοντα. Τὸ γὰρ, « Ἐκ σοῦ μοι ἐξελεύσεται ἡγούμενος, » τὴν κατὰ σάρκα γέννησιν τὴν ἐπ᾽ ἐσχάτου τῶν ἡμερῶν γεγενημένην δηλοῖ" τὸ δὲ, « Αἱ ἔξοδοι αὐτοῦ ἀπ᾽ ἀρχῆς ἀφ᾽ ἡμερῶν αἰῶνος, ν» τὴν προαιώγιον ὕπαρξιν κηρύττει σαφῶς. Οὕτω καὶ ὁ θεῖος ᾿Απόστολος ἐν τῆίῥπρὸς Ῥωμαίους Ἐπιστολῇ, τῆς παλαιᾶς Ἰουδαίων εὐκληρίας ὀλοφυρόμενος τὴν ἐπὶ τὸ χεῖρον μεταθολὴν, καὶ τῆς θείας ἐπαγγελίας καὶ νο- « Ὧων οἱ πατέρες, καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ Χριστὸς κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὧν ἐπὶ πάντων Θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων. ᾿Αμήν.» Καὶ κατὰ ταὐτὸν, καὶ τῶν ἀπάντων Δημιουργὸν, καὶ Δεσπότην, καὶ πρύτανιν ὡς θεὸν, καὶ ἐξ Ἰουδαίων βεόλαστηχότα ὡς ἄνθρω- “ον ἔδειξεν.
ERAN. Eirētai tauta tǭ ᾿Apostolǭ. ORTh. Hichkana men kai tauta pasan tēn peri toutou kinoumenēn amphisdētēsin lysai. Egō de homōs kai heteras se prorrhēseōs anamnēsō. Iachōd ho patriarchēs tēnde tēn eulogian autǭ kai tǭ te patri kai tǭ pappǭ dotheisan, Ioudą tǭ paidi dedōke monǭ. Ephē de houtōs" e« Ouk ekleipsei archōn ex Iouda, kai hēgoumenos ek tōn mērōn autou, heōs an elthę̄ hǭ apokeitai, kai autos prosdokia ethnōn.» Ē ou dechę̄ tēnde tēn prorrhēsin, hōs peri tou Sōtēros eirēmenēn Christou? ERAN. Ioudaioi tas toiautas parermēneuouae prophēteias " egō de Christianos eimi, tois theiois pisteuōn logois, kai tas peri tou Sōtēros hēmōn ORTh. Epeidē toinyn pisteuein tais prophēteiais homologeis, kai ta prorrhēthenta peri tou Sōtēros hēmōn tethespisthai legeis, noēson ({ enteuthen tōn apostolikōn rhētōn ton skopon. Tas gar pros tous patriarchas gegenēmenas epangelias peperasmenas epideiknys, tēn thaumasian echeinēn aphēke phōnēn" « Ou gar dēpou angelōn epilamdanetai" » mononouchi legōn, ᾿Apseudēs hē hyposchesis, epethēke tais epangeliais ho Despotēs peras, aneǭgei tois ethnesin hē tēs eulogias pēgē, tou ᾿Adramiaiou sper- ( batos ho Theos epeilēptai, dia toutou tēn anōthen epēngelmenēn pragmateuetai sōtērian, dia touton tēn tōn ethnōn empedoi prosdokian. ERAN. "Arista tois apostolikois ta prophētika ORTh. Houtō palin ho theios ᾿Apostolos tēs tou Iouda hēmas anamimnēskōn euergesias, kai deiknys kai tautēn dexamenēn to peras, boą’ « Prodēlon gar, hoti ex ᾿IIouda anatetalken ho Kyrios. n» Tauto de touto kai ho prophētēs Mikaias, kai ho euangelistēs Matthaios pepoiēken. Ho men gar eipe tēn prorrhēsin, ho de tę̄ historią tēn martyrian synetaxe. Kai to paradoxon, hoti tous prodēlotatous tēs alētheias echthrous ephē tǭ Ē rōdę̄ saphōs eipein, hōs en tę̄ Bēthleem ho Christos gennatai. e Gegraptai gar, 0 phēsi, Kai sy, Bēthleem, Iē Iouda, oudamōs elachistē ei en tois hēgemosin Iouda" ek sou gar moi exeleusetai hēgoumenos, hostis poimanei ton laon mon ton Israēl. » ᾿Epagagōmen de kai hēmeis kai hoper Ioudaioi kakoēthōs parelipon, atelę̄ prosenenchontes tēn martyrian. Eirēkōs gar ho prophētēs, e Ek sou exeleusetai moi hēgoumenos, n epēgage" «e Kai hai exodoi autou ap᾽ archēs aph᾽ hēmerōn aiōnos.» ERAN. “Arista pepoiēkas, pasan tetheikōs tou prophētou tēn martyrian. Deiknysi gar ton en Bē Theon. ORTh. Ou Theon monon, alla kai anthrōpon. "Anthrōpon men, hōs ex Iouda kata sarka blastēsanta, kai en Bēthleem gennēthenta’ Theon de, hōs pro aiōnōn hyparchonta. To gar, « Ek sou moi exeleusetai hēgoumenos, » tēn kata sarka gennēsin tēn ep᾽ eschatou tōn hēmerōn gegenēmenēn dēloi" to de, « Hai exodoi autou ap᾽ archēs aph᾽ hēmerōn aiōnos, n» tēn proaiōgion hyparxin kēryttei saphōs. Houtō kai ho theios ᾿Apostolos en tēirhpros Rhōmaious Epistolę̄, tēs palaias Ioudaiōn euklērias olophyromenos tēn epi to cheiron metatholēn, kai tēs theias epangelias kai no- « Hōōn hoi pateres, kai ex hōn ho Christos kata sarka, ho hōn epi pantōn Theos eulogētos eis tous aiōnas tōn aiōnōn. ᾿Amēn.» Kai kata tauton, kai tōn apantōn Dēmiourgon, kai Despotēn, kai prytanin hōs theon, kai ex Ioudaiōn beolastēchota hōs anthrō- “on edeixen.
Eranistes: These things were said by the Apostle. Orthodoxos: These too are enough to settle the whole dispute raised about this. Yet I will remind you of another prophecy as well. Jacob the patriarch gave this blessing, which had been given to himself and to his father and grandfather, to his son Judah alone. He spoke thus: “A ruler shall not fail from Judah, nor a leader from his thighs, until he comes for whom it is laid up, and he is the expectation of the nations.” Or do you not accept this prophecy as spoken of Christ the Savior? Eranistes: The Jews misinterpret such prophecies; but I am a Christian, believing the divine words, and [I accept] the [prophecies] about our Savior … Orthodoxos: Since, then, you confess that you believe the prophecies, and say that what was foretold about our Savior was divinely declared, learn from this the aim of the apostolic sayings. For, showing that the promises made to the patriarchs had reached their fulfilment, he uttered that wonderful saying, “For surely it is not angels that he takes hold of,” as if to say: The promise is without falsehood; the Master has brought the promises to their end; the spring of the blessing has been opened to the nations; God has taken hold of the seed of Abraham; through this he accomplishes the salvation promised from of old; through this he makes firm the expectation of the nations. Eranistes: Excellently [have you joined] the prophetic to the apostolic … Orthodoxos: So again the divine Apostle, reminding us of the benefit granted to Judah and showing that this too had received its fulfilment, cries out: “For it is evident that the Lord has sprung from Judah.” The prophet Micah and the evangelist Matthew did the same: the one spoke the prophecy, the other joined the testimony to the history. And the remarkable thing is that he says that the most obvious enemies of the truth plainly told Herod that the Christ is born in Bethlehem. “For it is written,” he says, “And you, Bethlehem, land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come forth for me a leader who will shepherd my people Israel.” But let us add what the Jews maliciously left out when they offered the testimony incomplete. For the prophet, having said, “From you shall come forth for me a leader,” added: “And his goings forth are from the beginning, from the days of eternity.” Eranistes: You have done excellently in setting down the whole testimony of the prophet. For it shows that the one [born] in Bethlehem is God. Orthodoxos: Not God only, but also human: human, as having sprung from Judah according to the flesh and been born in Bethlehem; God, as existing before the ages. For “From you shall come forth for me a leader” indicates the birth according to the flesh that took place in the last of the days; but “His goings forth are from the beginning, from the days of eternity” clearly proclaims the existence before the ages. So too the divine Apostle in the letter to the Romans, lamenting the change for the worse in the ancient good fortune of the Jews, and … of the divine promise and … “Whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is God over all, blessed to the ages of ages. Amen.” And at the same time he showed him to be the Creator and Master and Ruler of all, as God, and sprung from the Jews, as human.
Gen 49:10 (quotation, high confidence) · Heb 2:16 (quotation, high confidence) · Heb 7:14 (quotation, high confidence) · Matt 2:5 (quotation, high confidence) · Matt 2:6 (quotation, high confidence) · Mic 5:2 (5:1 LXX) (quotation, high confidence) · Rom 9:5 (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: Orthodoxos shows from Jacob's blessing of Judah, Micah's prophecy of Bethlehem, and Rom 9:5 that Christ is both God before the ages and human, born of Judah.
- Lines have dropped out of the OCR where '…' is printed. Theodoret's charge that the Jewish teachers (Matt 2:4–6) 'maliciously left out' the second half of Mic 5:2 is his own polemical reading, translated as written. Quotations: Gen 49:10 (LXX); Heb 2:16; Heb 7:14; Mic 5:2 (LXX 5:1) as cited in Matt 2:6, and its continuation; Rom 9:5.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (marginal Scripture reference inside a word): "Ανγν, 8. θρωπὸν → "Ανθρωπὸν.
Topics: Christology
Cite (SBL): Theodoret, Eran. 1.5 (PG 83; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-5). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-5
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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Greek as printed in Migne PG 83 (archive.org OCR); no public-domain or FOTC English exists, so every section was re-read against the Greek (dialogues 1-2 partly by the translator and partly in a separate review pass).
1.6PG 83
ΕΡΑΝ. Ἰδοὺ ταῦτα ἡρμήνευσας " πρὸς τὴν Ἵερεμίου προφητείαν τί ἂν εἴποις; Ἐκείνη γὰρ αὑτὸν Θεὸν μόνον κηρύττει. ΟΡΘ. Ποίαν λέγεις προφητείαν; ΕΡΑΝ. ε Οὗτος ὁ θεὸς ἡμῶν, οὐ λογισθήσεται ἕτερος πρὸς αὐτόν. Ἐξεῦρε πᾶσαν ὁδὸν ἐπιστήμης, καὶ ἔδωκεν αὐτὴν Ἰαχὼδ τῷ παιδὶ αὑτοῦ, καὶ Ἰσραὴλ τῷ ἠγαπημένῳ ὑπ᾽ αὐτοῦ. Μετὰ ταῦτα ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ὥφθη καὶ τοῖς ἀνθρώποις συνανεστράφη.» Ἐν τούτοις ὁ προφήτης οὔτε περὶ σαρκὸς, οὔτε περὶ ἀνθρωπότητος, οὔτε περὶ ἀνθρώπου, ἀλλὰ περὶ μόγου Θεοῦ προηγόρευσεν. ΟΡΘ. Ποῦ τοίνυν χρεία συλλογισμῶν; Τὴν θείαν, φυσιν ἀόρατον εἷναξέ φαμεν, ἣ οὐ πειθόμεθα τῷ ᾿Αποστόλῳ λέγοντι, ε« ᾿Αφθάρτῳ, ἀοράτῳ, μόνῳ ΕΡΑΝ. ᾿Αναμφιλέκτως ἡ θεία φύσις ἀόρατος. ΟΡΘ. Πῶς τοίνυν οἷόν τε ἣν ὀφθῆναι δίχα σώματος τὴν ἀόρατον φύσιν; Ἢ οὐ μέμνησαι τῶν ἀποστολικῶν ἐχείνων ῥητῶν, ἃ διδάσκει σαφῶς τῆς θείας φύσεως τὸ ἀθέατον; Λέγει δὲ οὕτως" ε« Ὃν εἶδεν οὐδεὶς ἀνθρώπων, οὔτε ἰδεῖν δύναται. ν» Εἰ τοίνυν ἀδύνατος ἀνθρώποις, ἐγὼ δέ φημι καὶ ἀγγέλοις, ἢ τῆς θείας φύσεως θεωρία, εἰπὲ πῶς ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ὁ ἀθέατος καὶ ἀόρατος ὥφθη. ἘΡΑΝ. Ὁ προφήτης εἶπεν, ὅτι ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς Ὁ ὥφθη. ΟΡΘ. Καὶ ὁ ᾿Απόστολος εἶπεν, ε ᾿Αφθάρτῳ, ἀοράτῷ, μόνῳ Θεῷ" » καὶ, ε« Ὃν εἶδεν οὐδεὶς ἀνθρώπων, οὔτε ἰδεῖν δύναται. » ΕΡΑΝ. Τί οὖν; ψεύδεται ὁ προφήτης; ΟΡΘ. Μὴ γένοιτοϊ τοῦ θείου γὰρ Πνεύματος καὶ ταῦτα κἀκεῖνα τὰ δήματα. ΕΡΑΝ. Ζητήσωμεν τοίνυν κῶς ὁ ἀόρατος ὥφθη. ΟΡΘ. Μή μοι λογισμοὺς καὶ συλλογισμοὺς ' ἀνθρωπίνους προσενέγκῃς. ᾿Εγὼ γὰρ μόνῃ πείθομαι τῇ θείᾳ Γραφῇ. ΕΡΑΝ. Μηδένα δέξῃ λόγον, ἤκιστα βεβαιρύμεν νον Ἐραφιχῇ μαρτυρίᾳ. Ἐάν μοι τῆς ἀμφιῤολίᾳς τὴν λύσιν ἐκ τῆς θείᾳς τπερραξνέγχῃς Γραφῆς, δέξοα μᾷν καὶ οὐκ ἀγτιφθάγξομαι, χὴν ῥῆσιν διὰ τῆς ἀποστολικῆς μαρτυρίας σαφῇ πεποιήκαμεν, καὶ δεδήλωκεν ἡμῖν ὁ θεῖος ᾿Απόατολος, πῶς ὁ Λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο, διαῤῥήδην εἰπὼν, « Οὐ γὰρ δῆπφυ ἀγγέλων ἀπιλᾳμθάνεται, ἀλλὰ σπὲρματος ᾿Αὐραὰμ Σπιλαμθάνεται. κ Ὁ αὐτὸς τοίνυν καὶ νῦν ἡμᾶς διδάξει διδάσκαλος πῶς ὁ θεὸς Λόγος ἐπὶ τῇς γῆς ὥφθη, καὶ τοῖς ἀνθμώποις συνανεστράφη. ΕΡΑΝ. Ἐγὼ καὶ ταῖς ἀποαταλιχοῖς καὶ τοῖς φῃτιχοὶς πείθομαι λόγοις. Δεῖξον τοίνυν, κατὰ τὰν ὑπόσχεσιν, τῆς προφητείας τὴν ἑρμηνείαν. ΟΡΘ. Τιμοθέῳ γράφων ὁ θεῖος ᾿Απόστολος καὶ ταῦτα τέθεικεν " « ᾿Ὁμολογουμένως μέγα ἐσεὶ τὸ νἧς εὐσεδείας μυστήριον’ Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκὶ, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὥφθη ἀγγέλοις, ἐκηρύχθη ἐν ἔθγασιν, ἐπιστεύθη ἐν χάσμῳ, ἀνελήφθη ἐν δόξῃ. ᾽ Δῆλον τοίνυν, ὡς ἀόρατος μὲν ἡ θοία φύσις, ὁρατὴ δὲ ἡ σὰρξ, καὶ διὰ τῆς ὁρατῆς ἡ ἀόρατος ὥφθη, δι' αὐτῆς ἐνεργήσασα τὰ θαύματα, καὶ τὴν αἰχείαν ἀποχαλύψασα δύναμιν. Τῇ μὲν γὰρ χειρὶ τὴν ὁπειχὴν ἐδημιούργησεν. αἴσθησιν καὶ τὸν ἐκ γενετῆς τυφλὸν ἐθεράπευσε. Καὶ αὖ πάλιν, τὴν ἀκουστικὴν ἐνέργειαν ἀπέδωκε τῷ κωφῷ, καὶ τὴν. πεπεδημένην ὄλυας γλῶτταν, ἀντὶ μὲν ὀργάνου τοῖς δακτύλοις χρησάμενος, οἷον δέ τι φάρμακον ἀλεξίχαχον τὸ πτύσμα͵ προσενεγκών, Οὕτω πάλιν ἐπὶ θαλάττης βαδίσας, τὸ τῆς θεότητος ὑπέφηνε παντοδύναμον. ᾿Αρμοδίῳς τοίνυν ὁ θεῖος ᾿Απόστολος εἶπε, ε θεὺς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί. » Δι᾽ ἐκείνης γὰρ ἡ ἀθέατος ἐπεφάνη φύσις, δι᾿ ἐκείνης αὐτὴν εἶδον καὶ τῶν ἀγγέλων. οὗ δῆμοι ᾿ « "Ὥφθη γὰρ, φησὶν, ἀγγέλοις. ν» Νίεθ' ἡμῶν οὖν ἄρα τῆς δωρεᾶς ταύτης καὶ τῶν ἀσωμάτων ἡ φύσις ἀπέλαυσεν.
ERAN. Idou tauta hērmēneusas " pros tēn Hieremiou prophēteian ti an eipois? Ekeinē gar hauton Theon monon kēryttei. ORTh. Poian legeis prophēteian? ERAN. e Houtos ho theos hēmōn, ou logisthēsetai heteros pros auton. Exeure pasan hodon epistēmēs, kai edōken autēn Iachōd tǭ paidi hautou, kai Israēl tǭ ēgapēmenǭ hyp᾽ autou. Meta tauta epi tēs gēs hōphthē kai tois anthrōpois synanestraphē.» En toutois ho prophētēs oute peri sarkos, oute peri anthrōpotētos, oute peri anthrōpou, alla peri mogou Theou proēgoreusen. ORTh. Pou toinyn chreia syllogismōn? Tēn theian, physin aoraton heinaxe phamen, hē ou peithometha tǭ ᾿Apostolǭ legonti, e« ᾿Aphthartǭ, aoratǭ, monǭ ERAN. ᾿Anamphilektōs hē theia physis aoratos. ORTh. Pōs toinyn hoion te hēn ophthēnai dicha sōmatos tēn aoraton physin? Ē ou memnēsai tōn apostolikōn echeinōn rhētōn, ha didaskei saphōs tēs theias physeōs to atheaton? Legei de houtōs" e« Hon eiden oudeis anthrōpōn, oute idein dynatai. n» Ei toinyn adynatos anthrōpois, egō de phēmi kai angelois, ē tēs theias physeōs theōria, eipe pōs epi tēs gēs ho atheatos kai aoratos hōphthē. ERAN. Ho prophētēs eipen, hoti epi tēs gēs Ho hōphthē. ORTh. Kai ho ᾿Apostolos eipen, e ᾿Aphthartǭ, aoratǭ, monǭ Theǭ" » kai, e« Hon eiden oudeis anthrōpōn, oute idein dynatai. » ERAN. Ti oun? pseudetai ho prophētēs? ORTh. Mē genoitoï tou theiou gar Pneumatos kai tauta kakeina ta dēmata. ERAN. Zētēsōmen toinyn kōs ho aoratos hōphthē. ORTh. Mē moi logismous kai syllogismous ' anthrōpinous prosenenkę̄s. ᾿Egō gar monę̄ peithomai tę̄ theią Graphę̄. ERAN. Mēdena dexę̄ logon, ēkista bebairymen non Eraphichę̄ martyrią. Ean moi tēs amphiroliąs tēn lysin ek tēs theiąs tperraxnenchę̄s Graphēs, dexoa mąn kai ouk agtiphthanxomai, chēn rhēsin dia tēs apostolikēs martyrias saphę̄ pepoiēkamen, kai dedēlōken hēmin ho theios ᾿Apoatolos, pōs ho Logos sarx egeneto, diarrhēdēn eipōn, « Ou gar dēpphy angelōn apiląmthanetai, alla spermatos ᾿Auraam Spilamthanetai. k Ho autos toinyn kai nyn hēmas didaxei didaskalos pōs ho theos Logos epi tę̄s gēs hōphthē, kai tois anthmōpois synanestraphē. ERAN. Egō kai tais apoatalichois kai tois phę̄tichois peithomai logois. Deixon toinyn, kata tan hyposchesin, tēs prophēteias tēn hermēneian. ORTh. Timotheǭ graphōn ho theios ᾿Apostolos kai tauta tetheiken " « ᾿Homologoumenōs mega esei to nēs eusedeias mystērion’ Theos ephanerōthē en sarki, edikaiōthē en pneumati, hōphthē angelois, ekērychthē en ethgasin, episteuthē en chasmǭ, anelēphthē en doxę̄. ᾽ Dēlon toinyn, hōs aoratos men hē thoia physis, horatē de hē sarx, kai dia tēs horatēs hē aoratos hōphthē, di' autēs energēsasa ta thaumata, kai tēn aicheian apochalypsasa dynamin. Tę̄ men gar cheiri tēn hopeichēn edēmiourgēsen. aisthēsin kai ton ek genetēs typhlon etherapeuse. Kai au palin, tēn akoustikēn energeian apedōke tǭ kōphǭ, kai tēn. pepedēmenēn olyas glōttan, anti men organou tois daktylois chrēsamenos, hoion de ti pharmakon alexichachon to ptysma͵ prosenenkōn, Houtō palin epi thalattēs badisas, to tēs theotētos hypephēne pantodynamon. ᾿Armodiǭs toinyn ho theios ᾿Apostolos eipe, e theus ephanerōthē en sarki. » Di᾽ ekeinēs gar hē atheatos epephanē physis, di᾿ ekeinēs autēn eidon kai tōn angelōn. hou dēmoi ᾿ « "Hōphthē gar, phēsin, angelois. n» Nieth' hēmōn oun ara tēs dōreas tautēs kai tōn asōmatōn hē physis apelausen.
Eranistes: See, you have interpreted these things; what would you say to the prophecy of Jeremiah? For it proclaims him God only. Orthodoxos: Which prophecy do you mean? Eranistes: “This is our God; no other shall be reckoned beside him. He found out the whole way of knowledge and gave it to Jacob his servant and to Israel who is loved by him. After this he appeared on earth and lived among human beings.” In these words the prophet foretold nothing about flesh, nor about humanity, nor about a human being, but about God alone. Orthodoxos: Where, then, is the need of syllogisms? Do we say that the divine nature is invisible, or do we not believe the Apostle who says, “To the incorruptible, invisible, only [God]”? Eranistes: The divine nature is indisputably invisible. Orthodoxos: How, then, was it possible for the invisible nature to be seen without a body? Or do you not remember those apostolic sayings that teach clearly that the divine nature cannot be beheld? He says thus: “whom no human being has seen or can see.” If, then, the vision of the divine nature is impossible for human beings (and I say, for angels too), tell me how the one who cannot be beheld and is invisible was seen on earth. Eranistes: The prophet said that he was seen on earth. Orthodoxos: And the Apostle said, “To the incorruptible, invisible, only God,” and “whom no human being has seen or can see.” Eranistes: What, then? Does the prophet lie? Orthodoxos: Far from it! For both these words and those are of the divine Spirit. Eranistes: Let us, then, seek how the invisible one was seen. Orthodoxos: Do not bring me human reasonings and syllogisms. For I am persuaded by the divine Scripture alone. Eranistes: Accept no argument that is not confirmed by the testimony of Scripture. If you bring me the solution of the ambiguity from the divine Scripture, I will accept it and not contradict. [Orthodoxos:] … we made the saying clear through the apostolic testimony, and the divine Apostle showed us how the Word became flesh, saying expressly, “For surely it is not angels that he takes hold of, but he takes hold of the seed of Abraham.” The same teacher, then, will now also teach us how God the Word was seen on earth and lived among human beings. Eranistes: I am persuaded both by the apostolic and by the prophetic words. Show, then, as you promised, the interpretation of the prophecy. Orthodoxos: Writing to Timothy, the divine Apostle set down this too: “Confessedly great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.” It is clear, then, that the divine nature is invisible but the flesh visible, and that through the visible the invisible was seen, working the miracles through it and revealing its own power. For with his hand he fashioned the faculty of sight … and healed the man blind from birth. And again, he restored the power of hearing to the deaf man and loosed the bound tongue, using his fingers in place of an instrument and applying his spittle like a healing remedy. So again, by walking on the sea, he disclosed the omnipotence of the Godhead. Fittingly, then, the divine Apostle said, “God was manifested in the flesh.” For through it the nature that cannot be beheld appeared; through it the throngs of angels too saw it: “For he was seen,” he says, “by angels.” So, then, the nature of the bodiless beings too enjoyed this gift along with us.
1 Tim 1:17 (quotation, high confidence) · 1 Tim 6:16 (quotation, high confidence) · Heb 2:16 (quotation, high confidence) · 1 Tim 3:16 (quotation, high confidence) · John 9:6 (allusion, high confidence) · Mark 7:33 (allusion, high confidence) · Matt 14:25 (allusion, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: Eranistes cites Baruch 3:38 ('he appeared on earth') as proof that Christ was God only; Orthodoxos answers that the invisible God was seen through the visible flesh, as 1 Tim 3:16 says.
- The 'prophecy of Jeremiah' is Bar 3:36–38, which was read as part of Jeremiah. Lines have dropped out of the OCR where '…' is printed (the start of Orthodoxos' reply after Eranistes' challenge, and a phrase in the healing of the blind man). Migne's Latin column read as Greek letters has been removed (logged corrections). Quotations: 1 Tim 1:17; 1 Tim 6:16; Heb 2:16; 1 Tim 3:16. Healings: John 9:6–7; Mark 7:33–35; walking on the sea: Matt 14:25.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (Migne's Latin column read as Greek letters): ἰῃ Ερὶἀφ ῖβ ογία αι αἱ Ὁ ΈΒΑΝ. Εσδρα ἰδία ἰπιογργοίδιυβ 68 : δὰ Ζογοιη δ «ἧς → τῆς; ΘΕΤΗ. ὕδθίπαπι οὐδ᾽ σδιοοϊπαιίοπὶβ οϑὲ → ; ἰην 5]-ρο- → ; ἰῃν 5]οἱ 118 Μηδένα --- μαρτυρίᾳ, Ῥγοχίπιἷ5 Ἐάν μοι, κ. «. λ. δὰ ἴῃ 9914 ἀἰγίμα ϑρτί- → ; ἀἰ- ΕΒΑΝ. Εγο οἱ δροβίο! οἷ δὲ ροηγἷα 3.» εἰν αἰὰ φληδυὶ, οἱ αἷαἰν) ηυϑ ἰηοί! ἰὰ οοκ- Ῥαίγοια 4015 υἱ θεὶς, ΗΪδὲ ἰδ φειὶ ὁδὶ ἃ 60, μία υἱαὶϊ Εἰ → .
Extrabiblical texts: Bar 3:36-38 (Baruch [in RC, EO, ETH canons]; quotation)
Topics: Christology, Scripture and canon
Cite (SBL): Theodoret, Eran. 1.6 (PG 83; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-6). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-6
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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Greek as printed in Migne PG 83 (archive.org OCR); no public-domain or FOTC English exists, so every section was re-read against the Greek (dialogues 1-2 partly by the translator and partly in a separate review pass).
1.7PG 83
ΕΡΑΝ. Οὐκοῦν καὶ πρὸ τῆς τοῦ Σωτῆρος ἐπιφανείας, οὐκ ἑώρων οἱ ἄγγελοι τὸν Θεόν ΟΡΘ, Ὁ ᾿Απόστολος εἶπεν, ὅτι φανερωθεὶς ἐν σαρκὶ ὥφθη ἀγγέλοις. ΕΡΑΝ. ᾿Αλλ᾽ ὁ Κύριος ἔφη ε Ὁρᾶτε, μὴ χατα- Ὁ φρανήαητε ἑνὸς τῶν μικρῶν τούτων. τῶν ἐλαχίστων, ᾿Αμὴν γὰρ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι οἱ ἄγγελοι αὐτῶν γαθ᾽ ἡμέραν. ὁρῶσι τὸ πρόσωπον τοῦ Πατρὸς ἡμῶν τοῦ ὃν οὐρανοῖς.» ὈΡΘ. ᾿Αλλ’ ὁ Κύριος πάλιν εἶπεν, « Οὐκ ὅτι τὸν Πατέρα τις ἑώρακεν, εἰ μὴ ὁ ὧν παρὰ τοῦ Θεοῦ, οὗτος ἑώρακε τὸν Πατέρα. » Διά τοι τοῦτο καὶ ὁ Ἐὐαγγελιστὴς ἄντικρυς βοᾷ, ε θεὸν οὐδεὶςἑώραχε πώποτε, » καὶ βεδαιοῖ τοῦ Κυρίου τὸν λόγον" « Ὃ μονογενὴς γὰρ, φὴήσὶν, Υἱὸς, ὁ ὧν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ Πατρὸς, ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο. " Καὶ Μωυσῆς ὁ μέγαῴ, ποθήσας ἰδεῖν τὴν ἀόρατον φύσιν, ἤκουσεν αὐτοῦ λέγοντος τοῦ Δεσπότου Θεοῦ, ε Οὐδὲέὶς ὄψετάι τὸ πρόσωπόν μου, καὶ ζήσεταί. » ΕΡΑΝ. Ηῶς οὖν νόήσωμεν ὅτι «ε Οἱ ἄγγελοι αὐτῶν καθ᾽ ἡμόρᾶν ὁρῶσι τὸ πρόσωπον τοῦ Πατρὸς ὑμῶν :» ΟΡΘ. Ὡς νοὲΐν εἰώθαμεν τὰ περὶ ἐῶν ἑωρακέναι τὸν Θεὸν νομισθέντων ἀνθρώπων. ΕΡΑΝ. Εἰπὲ σαφέστερον᾽ οὐ νενόηχα γάρ. Μὴ ναὶ τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ὁρατὸς ὁ θεός; ΕΡΑΝ. ᾿Αλλ᾽ ὅμως ἀκούομεν τῆς θείας Γραφῆς λεγούσης" « Ἤφθη ὁ Θεὸς τῷ ᾿Αδραὰμ πρὸς τῇ δρυῖ τῇ Μαμθρἧ" ν» καὶ Ἡσαΐου λέγοντος " « Εἶδον τὸν Κύριον καθήμενον ἐπὶ θῤόνου ὑψήλοῦ καὶ ἐπηρμένου.» Καὶ ὁ Μικαίας δὲ ταὐτὸ τοῦτὸ λέγει, καὺ ὁ Δανιὴλ, καὶ ὁ Ἰεζεχιήλ. Περὶ δὲ ἐοῦ Μωσέως τοῦ νομοθέτου φησὶν ἡ ἱστορία, δε: ἐλάλησε Κύριος τῷ ὡς εἴ τὶς λαλήσέι πρὸς φίλον αὑτοῦ. Καὶ αὐτὸς δὲ ὁ τῶν ὅλων ἔφη Θεὸς, ὅτι « Στόμα κατὰ στόμα λαλήσω αὐτῷ, ἐν εἴδει, καὶ οὐ δι᾽ αἰνιγμάτων. ν» Τί οὖν ἐροῦμεν; ὅτι τὴν θείαν ἐθεάσαντο φύσιν; ΟΡΘ. Οὐδαμῶς. Αὐτὸς γὰρ ὁ θεὸς ἔφη" ε Οὐδεὶς ὄψεται τὸ πρόσωπόν μου, καὶ ζήσεται. ν ΕΡΑΝ. Ἐξεύδοντας τοίνυν οἱ τὸν Θεὸν ἑωρακέναι φήσαντες; ΟΡΘ. Μὴ γένοιτο! Εἶδον γὰρ ἅπερ ἰδεῖν αὐτοὺς ζ οἷόν τε ἦν. ΕΡΑΝ. Τῇ δυνάμει ἄρα τῶν ὁρώντων ὁ φιλάνθρωπος Δεσπότης τὰς ἀποκαλύψεις μετρεῖ; ΟΡΘ. Πάνυ γε. Καὶ τοῦτο δηλον διὰ τοῦ προφήτγυ πεποίηκεν. « Ἐγὼ γὰρ, ἔφη, ὁράσεις ἐπλὴθυνα, καὶ ἐν χερσὶ προφητῶν ὡμοιώθην.» Οὐκ εἶπεν, Ὥφθην, ἀλλ᾽, ε« Ὡμοιώθην. » Ἡ δὲ ὁμοίωσις οὐκ αὐτὴν δηλοῖ τοῦ ὁρωμένου τὴν φύσιν. Οὐδὲ γὰρ ἧ τοῦ βασιλέως εἰκὼν αὐτοῦ δείκνυσι τοῦ βασιλέως τὴν φύσιν, κἂν ἐναργεῖς διασώτῃ τοῦ βασιλέως τοὺς χα-
ERAN. Oukoun kai pro tēs tou Sōtēros epiphaneias, ouk heōrōn hoi angeloi ton Theon ORTh, Ho ᾿Apostolos eipen, hoti phanerōtheis en sarki hōphthē angelois. ERAN. ᾿All᾽ ho Kyrios ephē e Horate, mē chata- Ho phranēaēte henos tōn mikrōn toutōn. tōn elachistōn, ᾿Amēn gar legō hymin hoti hoi angeloi autōn gath᾽ hēmeran. horōsi to prosōpon tou Patros hēmōn tou hon ouranois.» ORTh. ᾿All’ ho Kyrios palin eipen, « Ouk hoti ton Patera tis heōraken, ei mē ho hōn para tou Theou, houtos heōrake ton Patera. » Dia toi touto kai ho Euangelistēs antikrys boą, e theon oudeiseōrache pōpote, » kai bedaioi tou Kyriou ton logon" « Ho monogenēs gar, phēēsin, Huios, ho hōn eis ton kolpon tou Patros, ekeinos exēgēsato. " Kai Mōysēs ho megaǭ, pothēsas idein tēn aoraton physin, ēkousen autou legontos tou Despotou Theou, e Oudeeis opsetai to prosōpon mou, kai zēsetai. » ERAN. Ēōs oun noēsōmen hoti «e Hoi angeloi autōn kath᾽ hēmoran horōsi to prosōpon tou Patros hymōn :» ORTh. Hōs noeïn eiōthamen ta peri eōn heōrakenai ton Theon nomisthentōn anthrōpōn. ERAN. Eipe saphesteron᾽ ou nenoēcha gar. Mē nai tois anthrōpois horatos ho theos? ERAN. ᾿All᾽ homōs akouomen tēs theias Graphēs legousēs" « Ēphthē ho Theos tǭ ᾿Adraam pros tę̄ drui tę̄ Mamthrē" n» kai Hēsaïou legontos " « Eidon ton Kyrion kathēmenon epi thronou hypsēlou kai epērmenou.» Kai ho Mikaias de tauto touto legei, kau ho Daniēl, kai ho Iezechiēl. Peri de eou Mōseōs tou nomothetou phēsin hē historia, de: elalēse Kyrios tǭ hōs ei tis lalēsei pros philon hautou. Kai autos de ho tōn holōn ephē Theos, hoti « Stoma kata stoma lalēsō autǭ, en eidei, kai ou di᾽ ainigmatōn. n» Ti oun eroumen? hoti tēn theian etheasanto physin? ORTh. Oudamōs. Autos gar ho theos ephē" e Oudeis opsetai to prosōpon mou, kai zēsetai. n ERAN. Exeudontas toinyn hoi ton Theon heōrakenai phēsantes? ORTh. Mē genoito! Eidon gar haper idein autous z hoion te ēn. ERAN. Tę̄ dynamei ara tōn horōntōn ho philanthrōpos Despotēs tas apokalypseis metrei? ORTh. Pany ge. Kai touto dēlon dia tou prophētgy pepoiēken. « Egō gar, ephē, horaseis eplēthyna, kai en chersi prophētōn hōmoiōthēn.» Ouk eipen, Hōphthēn, all᾽, e« Hōmoiōthēn. » Hē de homoiōsis ouk autēn dēloi tou horōmenou tēn physin. Oude gar hē tou basileōs eikōn autou deiknysi tou basileōs tēn physin, kan enargeis diasōtę̄ tou basileōs tous cha-
Eranistes: Then even before the appearing of the Savior the angels did not see God? Orthodoxos: The Apostle said that, manifested in the flesh, he was seen by angels. Eranistes: But the Lord said, “See that you do not despise one of these little ones, the least; for truly I tell you that their angels every day see the face of our Father who is in heaven.” Orthodoxos: But the Lord again said, “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father.” For this reason the Evangelist too cries out plainly, “No one has ever seen God,” and confirms the Lord's word: “For the only-begotten Son,” he says, “who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.” And the great Moses, longing to see the invisible nature, heard the Master God himself say, “No one shall see my face and live.” Eranistes: How, then, shall we understand “Their angels every day see the face of your Father”? Orthodoxos: As we are accustomed to understand what is said of the human beings who were thought to have seen God. Eranistes: Speak more clearly; for I have not understood. … Is God, then, visible to human beings? Eranistes: Yet we hear the divine Scripture saying, “God appeared to Abraham by the oak of Mamre,” and Isaiah saying, “I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up.” And Micaiah says this same thing, and Daniel, and Ezekiel. And of Moses the lawgiver the history says that the Lord spoke to him as one would speak to his own friend. And the God of the universe himself said, “Mouth to mouth I will speak to him, in clear sight, and not in riddles.” What, then, shall we say? That they beheld the divine nature? Orthodoxos: By no means. For God himself said, “No one shall see my face and live.” Eranistes: Then those who said that they had seen God lied? Orthodoxos: Far from it! For they saw what it was possible for them to see. Eranistes: So the loving Master measures his revelations by the capacity of those who see? Orthodoxos: Certainly. And he made this clear through the prophet: “For I,” he said, “multiplied visions, and by the hands of prophets I was likened.” He did not say, “I was seen,” but “I was likened.” And a likeness does not show the very nature of what is seen. For not even the king's image shows the king's own nature, even if it preserves the king's features clearly …
Matt 18:10 (quotation, high confidence) · John 6:46 (quotation, high confidence) · John 1:18 (quotation, high confidence) · Exod 33:20 (quotation, high confidence) · Gen 18:1 (quotation, high confidence) · Isa 6:1 (quotation, high confidence) · 1 Kgs 22:19 (allusion, high confidence) · Dan 7:9 (allusion, medium confidence) · Ezek 1:26 (allusion, medium confidence) · Exod 33:11 (allusion, high confidence) · Num 12:8 (quotation, high confidence) · Hos 12:10 (12:11 LXX) (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: Eranistes cites Matt 18:10 and the visions of Abraham, Isaiah and the prophets; Orthodoxos answers that no one sees God's nature and that God gives visions measured to the capacity of those who see.
- Lines have dropped out of the OCR where '…' is printed; after 'I have not understood' a speaker label is lost, so the question 'Is God, then, visible to human beings?' is probably Orthodoxos'. 'Micaiah' (Greek Μιχαίας) is the prophet of 1 Kgs 22:19. Migne's Latin column and marginal references read as Greek letters have been removed (logged corrections). Quotations: Matt 18:10; John 6:46; John 1:18; Exod 33:20; Gen 18:1; Isa 6:1; Exod 33:11; Num 12:8; Hos 12:10 (LXX 12:11). Visions: 1 Kgs 22:19; Dan 7:9; Ezek 1:26–28.
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (Migne's Latin column and marginal references inside a word; Migne's Latin column read as Greek letters): μονοε ἢ Βρῦτου, 16: Κ᾽ 1 Ῥω, μὲ, 16. ἡ ΜδμΝ. χυῖῃ, 10. ]οδη. νι, ἴθ ἰθβθ γα δέξομαι λόγον, αμϑιῃ, ἰδού οποπὶ ὙπηῸ καῖ. ἃ διε βοιὶο 1 ἷρθ., ἀπη. 4094, ἴῃ - 8. γενὴς → μονογενὴς; Τοῦ Ἀ [ἰὺ8, ἀιι} δάϊ ἰῃ → τοῦ ; πὰ, « Απἡἀϊλεγούσης → λεγούσης; Βὶ ὁοπίοῃη : « → .
Topics: Christology
Cite (SBL): Theodoret, Eran. 1.7 (PG 83; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-7). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-7
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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Greek as printed in Migne PG 83 (archive.org OCR); no public-domain or FOTC English exists, so every section was re-read against the Greek (dialogues 1-2 partly by the translator and partly in a separate review pass).
1.8PG 83
ΕΡΑΝ. "Αδηλόν ἐστι τοῦτό γε καὶ ἀσαφές. Οὐκοῦν οὐδὲ τοῦ Θεοῦ τὴν οὐσίαν εἶδον οἱ τὰς ἀπο- ΟΡΘ. Τίς γὰρ οὕτω μέμηνεν ὥστε τοῦτο φάναι τολμῆσαι; ΕΡΑΝ. Εἴῤηται δὲ ὅμως ὡς ἑωράκασιν. 609. Εἴρηται. Ἡμεῖς δὲ καὶ λογισμοῖς εὐσεδέσι χρησάμενοι, καὶ ταῖς ἀποφάσεσι ταῖς θείαις πιστεύοντες, αἱ βοῶσι διαῤῥήδην, ε« Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακε πώποτε, » φαμὲν αὐτοὺς οὐ τὴν θείαν φύσιν ἑωρακέναι, ἀλλ᾽ ὄψεις τινὰς τῇ σφῶν δυνάμει συμμέτρους. ΟΡΘ. Οὕτω τοίνυν καὶ περὶ τῶν ἀγγέλων νοήσωμεν, ἀκούοντες ὅτι «Καθ᾿ ἡμέραν ὁρῶσι τὸ πρόσωπον τοῦ Πατρὸς ὑμῶν. » Οὐ γὰρ τὴν θείαν οὐσίαν ὁρῶσι, τὴν ἀπερίγραπτον, τὴν ἀκατάληπτον, τὴν ἀπερινόητον, τὴν περιληπτιχὴν τῶν ὅλων, ἀλλὰ δόξαν τινὰ τῇ ΕΡΑΝ. Ὡμολόγηται ταῦτα οὕτως ἔχειν. ΟΡΘ. Μετὰ μέντοι τὴν ἐνανθρώπησιν, ὥφθη καὶ «οἷς ἀγγέλοις, κατὰ τὸν θεῖον ᾿Απόστολον, οὐκ ὁμοιώματι δόξης, ἀλλ᾽ ἀληθεῖ καὶ ζῶντι χρησάμενος, οἷόν ῃ τίνι παραπετάσματι, τῷ τῆς σαρκὸς προχαλύμματι. "δ. » ε Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη γὰρ, φησὶν, ἐν σαρκὶ, ἐδικαιώθη ἐν πνεύματι, ὥφθη ἀγγέλοις. » ΕΡΑΝ. Τοῦτο μὲν ὡς Γραφικχὸν ἐδεξάμην, τὰς δὲ τῶν ὀνομάτων καινοτομίας οὐ δέχομαι. ΕΡΑΝ. Τὸ τοῦ παραπετάσματος. Ποία γὰρ Γραφὴ «ἣν τοῦ Κυρίου σάρκα παραπέτασμα προσηγόρευσεν; ΟΡΘ. “Ἑοικας μὴ μάλα σπουδαίως τὴν θείαν ἀναγινώσκειν Γραφήν. Ἧ γὰρ ἂν, οὐκ ἂν ἐμέμψω τῷ παρ’ ἡμῶν ὡς ἐν εἰκόνι ῥηθέντι. Πρῶτον μὲν γὰρ καὶ τὸ διὰ σαρκὸς φανερωθῆναι τὴν ἀόρατον φύσιν φάναι τὸν θεῖον ᾿Απόστολον, παραπέτασμα τῆς θεδτητος ἐπιτρέπει τὴν σάρκα νοεῖν. "Ἔπειτα δὲ σαφῶς κα ὁ θεῖος ᾿Απόστολος ἐν τῇ πρὸς Ἑδραίους ᾿Επιστολῇ ἐχρήσατο τῷ ὀνόματι. Λέγει δὲ οὕτως" ε Ἔχοντες οὖν, ἀδελφοὶ, παῤῥησίαν εἰς τὴν εἴσοδον τῶν ἁγίων ἐν τῷ αἵματι Ἰησοῦ, ἣν ἐκαίνισεν ἡ μῖν δὸὸν πρόσφατον καὶ ζῶσαν, διὰ τοῦ καταπετάσματος, τοῦτ᾽ ἔστι τῆς σαρκὸς αὐτοῦ, καὶ ἱερέα μέγαν ἐπὶ τὸν οἶκον τοῦ Θεοῦ, προσερχόμενον μετὰ ἀληθείας, εἰσερχόμενον μετὰ ἀληθινῆς καρδίας ἐν πληροφορίᾳ πίστεως, » καὶ τὰ ἑξῆς. εξόμεθα γάρ σοι καὶ ἑτέραν προφητικὴν μαρτυρίαν, στολὴν ἄντικρυς τοῦ Κυρίου τὴν σάρκα καὶ περιῦολος, οὐκ ἀντιλέξομεν, καὶ χάριν ὁμολογήσομεν. ΟΡΘ. Αὐτόν σε τῇ ἁληθείᾳ τῆς ἐπαγγελίας παρασχευάσω μαρτυρῆσαι. Οἶσθα ὅτι τὸν Ἰούδαν εὐλογῶν γοναῖς τὴν Ἰούδα ἡγεμονίαν; « Οὐκ ἐκλείψει γὰρ, ἔφη, ἄρχων ἐξ ᾿Ιούδα, καὶ ἡγούμενος ἐκ τῶν μηρῶν αὐτοῦ, ἕως ἂν ἔλθῃ ᾧ ἀπόκειται, καὶ αὐτὸς προτδοχία ἐθνῶν., Ταύτην δέ γε τοῖς ἔμπροσθεν ὡμολόγησας περὶ τοῦ Σωτῆρος τεθεσπίσθαι τὴν προφη- ΟΡΘ. ᾿Αναμνήσθητι τοιγαροῦν τῶν ἑξῆς. Λέγει γὰρ ὡσαύτως" «ε Οὗ τὴν παρουσίαν τὰ ἔθνη προσδέχεται" πλυνεῖ ἐν οἴνῳ τὴν στολὴν αὑτοῦ, καὶ ἐν αἷἴματι σταφυλῆς τὴν περιδολὴν αὑτοῦ. »
ERAN. "Adēlon esti touto ge kai asaphes. Oukoun oude tou Theou tēn ousian eidon hoi tas apo- ORTh. Tis gar houtō memēnen hōste touto phanai tolmēsai? ERAN. Eirētai de homōs hōs heōrakasin. 609. Eirētai. Hēmeis de kai logismois eusedesi chrēsamenoi, kai tais apophasesi tais theiais pisteuontes, hai boōsi diarrhēdēn, e« Theon oudeis heōrake pōpote, » phamen autous ou tēn theian physin heōrakenai, all᾽ opseis tinas tę̄ sphōn dynamei symmetrous. ORTh. Houtō toinyn kai peri tōn angelōn noēsōmen, akouontes hoti «Kath᾿ hēmeran horōsi to prosōpon tou Patros hymōn. » Ou gar tēn theian ousian horōsi, tēn aperigrapton, tēn akatalēpton, tēn aperinoēton, tēn perilēptichēn tōn holōn, alla doxan tina tę̄ ERAN. Hōmologētai tauta houtōs echein. ORTh. Meta mentoi tēn enanthrōpēsin, hōphthē kai «hois angelois, kata ton theion ᾿Apostolon, ouk homoiōmati doxēs, all᾽ alēthei kai zōnti chrēsamenos, hoion ę̄ tini parapetasmati, tǭ tēs sarkos prochalymmati. "d. » e Theos ephanerōthē gar, phēsin, en sarki, edikaiōthē en pneumati, hōphthē angelois. » ERAN. Touto men hōs Graphikchon edexamēn, tas de tōn onomatōn kainotomias ou dechomai. ERAN. To tou parapetasmatos. Poia gar Graphē «hēn tou Kyriou sarka parapetasma prosēgoreusen? ORTh. “Heoikas mē mala spoudaiōs tēn theian anaginōskein Graphēn. Hē gar an, ouk an emempsō tǭ par’ hēmōn hōs en eikoni rhēthenti. Prōton men gar kai to dia sarkos phanerōthēnai tēn aoraton physin phanai ton theion ᾿Apostolon, parapetasma tēs thedtētos epitrepei tēn sarka noein. "Epeita de saphōs ka ho theios ᾿Apostolos en tę̄ pros Hedraious ᾿Epistolę̄ echrēsato tǭ onomati. Legei de houtōs" e Echontes oun, adelphoi, parrhēsian eis tēn eisodon tōn hagiōn en tǭ haimati Iēsou, hēn ekainisen hē min doon prosphaton kai zōsan, dia tou katapetasmatos, tout᾽ esti tēs sarkos autou, kai hierea megan epi ton oikon tou Theou, proserchomenon meta alētheias, eiserchomenon meta alēthinēs kardias en plērophorią pisteōs, » kai ta hexēs. exometha gar soi kai heteran prophētikēn martyrian, stolēn antikrys tou Kyriou tēn sarka kai periyolos, ouk antilexomen, kai charin homologēsomen. ORTh. Auton se tę̄ halētheią tēs epangelias parascheuasō martyrēsai. Oistha hoti ton Ioudan eulogōn gonais tēn Iouda hēgemonian? « Ouk ekleipsei gar, ephē, archōn ex ᾿Iouda, kai hēgoumenos ek tōn mērōn autou, heōs an elthę̄ hǭ apokeitai, kai autos protdochia ethnōn., Tautēn de ge tois emprosthen hōmologēsas peri tou Sōtēros tethespisthai tēn prophē- ORTh. ᾿Anamnēsthēti toigaroun tōn hexēs. Legei gar hōsautōs" «e Hou tēn parousian ta ethnē prosdechetai" plynei en oinǭ tēn stolēn hautou, kai en haiimati staphylēs tēn peridolēn hautou. »
Eranistes: That at least is obscure and unclear. Then neither did those who [received] the revelations see God's substance? Orthodoxos: Who is so mad as to dare to say this? Eranistes: Yet it is said that they saw. Orthodoxos: It is said. But we, using godly reasoning and believing the divine statements that cry out expressly, “No one has ever seen God,” … say that they saw not the divine nature but certain visions proportioned to their own capacity. … Orthodoxos: So, then, let us understand the angels too, when we hear that “every day they see the face of your Father.” For they do not see the divine substance, which is uncircumscribed, incomprehensible, inconceivable, and encompasses all things, but a certain glory [proportioned] to their … Eranistes: It is agreed that this is so. Orthodoxos: After the incarnation, however, he was seen by the angels too, according to the divine Apostle, using not a likeness of glory but a true and living [one], the covering of the flesh, as a kind of veil. “For God,” he says, “was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels.” Eranistes: This I have accepted as scriptural; but I do not accept innovations in names. … Eranistes: That of the veil. For what Scripture has called the Lord's flesh a veil? Orthodoxos: You seem not to read the divine Scripture very diligently; otherwise you would not have found fault with what we said by way of an image. For in the first place, the divine Apostle's saying that the invisible nature was manifested through flesh allows us to understand the flesh as a veil of the Godhead. Then, the divine Apostle clearly used this very name in the letter to the Hebrews. He says thus: “Having, then, brothers, confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, his flesh, and [having] a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith,” and what follows. … [Eranistes:] … [If you show] us another prophetic testimony too, calling the Lord's flesh plainly a robe and a garment, we will not contradict, and we will acknowledge our thanks. Orthodoxos: I will make you yourself bear witness to the truth of the promise. Do you know that, blessing Judah, [Jacob foretold] to his offspring the rule of Judah? “For a ruler shall not fail from Judah,” he said, “nor a leader from his thighs, until he comes for whom it is laid up, and he is the expectation of the nations.” And in what went before you agreed that this prophecy was divinely spoken about the Savior. … Orthodoxos: Remember, therefore, what follows. For he says in the same passage: “Whose coming the nations await; he will wash his robe in wine, and his garment in the blood of the grape.”
John 1:18 (quotation, high confidence) · Matt 18:10 (quotation, high confidence) · 1 Tim 3:16 (quotation, high confidence) · Heb 10:19–22 (quotation, high confidence) · Gen 49:10 (quotation, high confidence) · Gen 49:11 (quotation, high confidence)
Notes and citation
Summary: Orthodoxos argues that prophets and angels saw visions proportioned to them, not God's substance, and that after the incarnation the Godhead was seen through the flesh as through a veil (Heb 10:20), which Gen 49:11 calls a robe.
- Lines have dropped out of the OCR where '…' is printed (Eranistes' replies, Orthodoxos' question 'Which?' after 'innovations in names', and the start of Eranistes' challenge to show a prophecy calling the flesh a robe); bracketed words are supplied for sense. Migne's Latin column read as Greek letters has been removed (logged corrections). Quotations: John 1:18; Matt 18:10; 1 Tim 3:16; Heb 10:19–22; Gen 49:10–11 (LXX).
Notes on the original text
- Digital text corrected (Migne's Latin column and marginal notes read as Greek letters; Migne's Latin column read as Greek letters; Migne's Latin column read as Greek letters inside a word): Μὴ -- ὁ Θεός. δε ἰη 64. Βοηι. οἱ Πἰρ5. ποκο!}}]. ᾽ν. » δὰ [1- Ποὺς ἀϊοϊς : ἐ τὸ δά 8 δάυππα σα → ; δηᾳ6}18, βοουπάπι ἀἰν! παπὶ ΑΡοβίο πὶ πο ἰῃ 5 ιλϑὶ γϑἰᾶ → ; ἴῃ Ερὶφάναι → φάναι; ἴθ πὶ ουτ νογὸ οοτάρσ, ἰῃ Ρ]οηϊ ἀπ ἢἀρὶ, » οἱ συ Ἰοὺ πὶ ροὺ → ; ὡμολό- φαπίϊτη "7. » γησας → ὡμολόγησας.
Topics: Christology
Cite (SBL): Theodoret, Eran. 1.8 (PG 83; trans. Sophia Scriptura, https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-8). (abbreviation not yet checked)
Permanent link: https://sophiascriptura.com/p/theodoret-eranistes/1-8
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Translation: Translated by Claude (Opus) from the Greek as printed in Migne PG 83 (archive.org OCR); no public-domain or FOTC English exists, so every section was re-read against the Greek (dialogues 1-2 partly by the translator and partly in a separate review pass).